Equal Rates of Pay as RN (or not)?

[McGrew]

Here’s a good one for the mathematicians.

If you get a matelot that is in a shore billet – maybe even a PSI then he does not work 365 days per year.

There are 365 days in the year.

Jack gets 6 weeks leave – that’s 365 – 42 = 323 days.

In the remaining 46 weeks of the year there are 46 weekends. Let’s say Jack’s blue card and gets 44 of them off. That’s 44 x 2 = 88 days.

The number of days left is 323 – 88 = 235 days.

Now he may be a traveller, and get the odd make and mend. Let’s say that is ½ day off per week so that is 46 weeks x ½ day = 23 days.

That leaves 235 – 23 = 212 days,

Oh – 8 of these are bank holidays.

That leaves 212 – 8 = 204 days.

So where is this leading?

Well if his daily rate is £50 a day then his annual salary is 50 x 365 = £18,250.

….but he works just 204 days – equivalent rate of pay = 18250 / 204 = £89.46 for a day’s work.

So are the RNR getting seen off getting one days pay for a full days work? (especially with the travel over a weekend when you only get 2 days pay).

I look forward to some arguments on this – x factor, bounty, part time employment regulations, pension spring to mind.

I may also be a rubbish mathematician and I am sure someone will find the fault in the argument.

 

[Lamri]

Hmm, if we are having it soooooo good "shipmate", then why are matelots (thats the REAL ones) leaving in droves ?

Oh, and why am I now getting paid less as a PO of eleven years than I was as a LMEM(L) since JPA ?

 

[the_matelot]

McGrew,

If you feel so seen off in comparison to us regulars, why don't you join up full-time then?

 

[higthepig]

There is one huge fault in the argument concerning regulars, Jack is paid 24 hours a day, ashore or afloat, 365 days x 24 hrs =8760hrs

assume a salary of an average £20,000

£20,000 divided by 8760 = 2.28p per hour

As you are RNR be grateful you get paid at all, now explain to me again exactly how you are getting seen off? Read the Matelots remarks above.

 

[McGrew]

I do not feel seen off - everybody has a choice. I am fortunate enough to earn considerably more than I would earn in the RN or RNR so therefore the invitation to join full time is not relevant to me (and probably most of the RNR). The post is merely to highlight the discrepancy in the statement that the same rates of pay apply to the RN as the RNR, an often quoted statement in much of the recruiting for the RNR and also the TA.

The purpose of the post was not a personal drip, I was interested to see what people thought about the argument.

 

[the_matelot]

The purpose of the post was not a personal drip, I was interested to see what people thought about the argument.

I think your argument holds absolutely no water whatsoever and if you don't like it, then you should fcuk off. Membership of the RNR is not compulsory. You do your set amount of days and if you don't like it, you don't have to stay in it. You can carry on with your regular job. Regulars however, have to put up with the 'needs of the service' 24/7.

I haven't been able to take my full entitlement of leave every year for the past 4 years.

I had to work on Xmas day. I did a 19 hour shift. There was 2 of us working. The other guy was a civil servant who lived locally. He worked for 8 hours less than me, got paid triple rate and got to go home for his Xmas dinner.

I, however, couldn't go home and my Xmas dinner was a fcuking sandwich. But, I chose to join the RN. I chose to do my current draft. And when I go back to sea, I'll slip back into a 6 hours on, 6 hours off routine as that's what my branch does at sea.

Pick your branch springs to mind. You'll get no sympathy from this callsign though.

 

[McGrew]

............and if you don't like it, then you should fcuk off. Membership of the RNR is not compulsory...........

I agree wholeheartedly - everybody has a choice.

Now can we get back on the subject?

 

[Lamri]

We've been on the subject, you've had your answer.

 

[Deckhead_Inspector]

Don't forget the Bounty. The RN don't get that.
One thing where pay matters are equal though. If an RNR receives a punishment of !0 days pay, for example. It will be payed in full, even if that was nearly all he earned in that year.

 

[slim]

Its my belief that the RNR is a rather exclusive club. As such members should not expect any payment. In fact to be a member they should require a sponser and be seconded. A vote should then be taken to ascertain their suitability for membership. If selected for membership then fees of £1200 per year should be payable. Fees should then be used to buy regulars in the RN beer!


Pass me my tin hat INCOMING!

 

[buster]

McGrew,

If you feel so seen off in comparison to us regulars, why don't you join up full-time then?

i know i couln't afford the drop in wages. shame really. :cry:

 

[rogerthecabinboy]

i am spartacus, sorry i am rogerthecabinboy.

 

[rosinacarley]

The purpose of the post was not a personal drip, I was interested to see what people thought about the argument.

I think your argument holds absolutely no water whatsoever and if you don't like it, then you should fcuk off. Membership of the RNR is not compulsory. You do your set amount of days and if you don't like it, you don't have to stay in it. You can carry on with your regular job. Regulars however, have to put up with the 'needs of the service' 24/7.

I haven't been able to take my full entitlement of leave every year for the past 4 years.

I had to work on Xmas day. I did a 19 hour shift. There was 2 of us working. The other guy was a civil servant who lived locally. He worked for 8 hours less than me, got paid triple rate and got to go home for his Xmas dinner.

I, however, couldn't go home and my Xmas dinner was a fcuking sandwich. But, I chose to join the RN. I chose to do my current draft. And when I go back to sea, I'll slip back into a 6 hours on, 6 hours off routine as that's what my branch does at sea.

Pick your branch springs to mind. You'll get no sympathy from this callsign though.

I think that is a harsh assessment, many civvies work xmas and new years - firemen, nurses, utility workers. So they may well get extra pay for the unsocial hours but that is not the point being made here.

The RNR chose to have their job and they volunteer for the RNR as well. I have already said we are being pressured to think of the RNR as our second profession. Of course many of us do not do it for the money but for other things and for that I would refer you to this thread.

Also as you and I have had our differences in the past, I am not looking to get into a slanging match with you but I wonder why you have such a downer on the RNR?

 

[angrydoc]

The thing is that civvies working on Bank Holidays get paid more - the RN working Bank Holidays gets paid nothing extra. I also worked Christmas Day, and will be working nights over the New Year. As has been said by other regular members, this is life in a blue suit and I am happy to get on with it.

I have said it before and I will say it again - the RNR does not have the market cornered on life outside the Navy.

Bringing up minor points like this and trying to get a flash is a bit childish.

 

[rosinacarley]

I am not sure what McGrew's motives are for starting the thread altough he did say

The purpose of the post was not a personal drip, I was interested to see what people thought about the argument.

It is certainly not minor to people who have two jobs and the benefits of their second P/T job are not the same as F/T in the same or similar work. In my world that is discrimination.

 

[Jim30]

The RN also only get days off when on nice shore drafts. Try telling the matelots in Basra Air Station that they're getting X amount more and you'll rightly be told where to go.

Prats like you give the RNR a bad name.

 

[the_matelot]

Also as you and I have had our differences in the past, I am not looking to get into a slanging match with you but I wonder why you have such a downer on the RNR?

How have you worked that one out then? I refer you to my post here

http://www.rumration.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/p=43515.html#43515

so I suggest you don't imply things that are not true. I don't resent the RNR one bit-just jumped up tossers who whinge about supposed 'perks' the regulars get but don't fully realise the impact full time service has on oneself, family etc.

What's flashed me up is McGrew implying that regulars do not earn their pay when shoreside. Reservists like that get short shrift with me and they can go and swivel.

I mentioned the way I got treated this Xmas as an example of how regs can get shafted compared to other professions such as the Civil Service. I, however, like being in the RN and have no intentions of leaving, despite the fact that I could do exactly the same job outside for 55k a year plus a company car-23k a year more than I'm on now. But that's life in a blue suit and is something I've accepted.

Reservists join the RNR knowing full well what they're letting themselves in for. And the majority put up with it without complaint which to me is commendable.

However, McGrew neglected to mention that after 5 yrs service in the RNR, your bounty equates to £53.75 for each of the mandatory training days that you are required to attend. This means that some of your CPO's are on a daily rate that is more than a WO1. (And before someone goes on about a pension for the RNR-Use your bounty! Stick that lump sum that you get for 24 days service a year into a pension fund. Considering that the RN pension is only worth about £3500 per annum in comparison to civvy pension funds (source of info-CTG at HMS Collingwood), a lump sum of £1290 for 24 days is very generous don't you think?)

What about the amount of times I've had my life fcuked up because of the 'needs of the service'? I haven't been compensated for that but I put up with it as I know it comes with the job.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but Reservists do not make the same amount of sacrifices for the same level of time as Regulars do. It's a simple fact. If you're struggling to juggle two careers, then the logical thing to do is ditch the part-time job/hobby (RNR). As several posters here have said, they're not doing it for the money.

Rosie, there's a lot of things which aren't fair in the service. Why should I get charged more food charges as a single person in the SR's mess than a married person for example? I could make many more examples but I won't.

Going on about how the RNR being discriminated against in comparison to the RN will not make you many friends in the RN no matter how much it may be perceived to be true and will only serve to drive the RN and RNR apart.

 

[FlagWagger]

I don't resent the RNR one bit-just jumped up tossers who whinge about supposed 'perks' the regulars get but don't fully realise the impact full time service has on oneself, family etc.

plus lots more common sense

Reservists join the RNR knowing full well what they're letting themselves in for. And the majority put up with it without complaint which to me is commendable.

plus even more common sense

I'm sorry to break this to you, but Reservists do not make the same amount of sacrifices for the same level of time as Regulars do. It's a simple fact. If you're struggling to juggle two careers, then the logical thing to do is ditch the part-time job/hobby (RNR). As several posters here have said, they're not doing it for the money.

Going on about how the RNR being discriminated against in comparison to the RN will not make you many friends in the RN no matter how much it may be perceived to be true and will only serve to drive the RN and RNR apart.

As a Reservist for over 20 years I wholeheartedly agree with everything written here - we are on different terms of service to the RN and the impact on our family lives will be different to the RN. On the other side of the coin, I would however ask regulars who may at times be dismissive of the impact (since we're not full time) to recognise that many of us join the RNR out of some sense of duty and as such put one hell of a lot into the RNR at times other than normal drill attendances and ORT. While the RN rates of pay cover 24/7, the RNR drill payment for nominally 2 hours typically covers a lot more.

However, there is one thing that both RN and RNR have in common - we're both elements of the naval service and if we can't play nicely together then God help us all if pongoes and crabs get added into the mix!

 

[hammockhead]

Look, this isn't a pissing competition. Despite much guff from the top we are different arms of the service and operate under completely different conditions.

This sort of nonsense, and I include the lot of hot air over pensions, only comes up because some idiots within the reserve hierarchy are trying to push the idea that we part-timers within the Royal Navy, rather than full-time Royal Naval Reservists, which is what we are. Those call-up papers can come through the letterbox 365 days a year (or at least any day that the Royal Mail delivers), and send you on an all-expenses 6-9 month paid holiday to Basrah, what ever plans you, your employer or your family had in mind.

That said, if you're going to bill it as the same rate of pay then my view is that it should exclude leave. It's just a matter of telling it like it is. If you can't take all your leave in the regular service, then surely the question should be why not, or at least why don't you get it as cash in lieu of leave when you leave. Both regulars and reservists should also be able to sue for all the other lies we are told by the AFCOs to make us join up...

 

[rosinacarley]

Stick that lump sum that you get for 24 days service a year into a pension fund.

I would love to be able to do 24 days a year, my current total is 28 and by the end of the year I would expect to total >40.

I do it willingly as I do the other things to make the training worthwhile - putting in preps when I am not being paid for it which would probably bring my total up to 50 days per year. I know I am not alone in this.

However I love what I do, having done it for 23 years. It pains me greatly to see an obvious divide between us and our RN counterparts expressed in such vitiolic language on here. I do not want to be equal to you but I would like to be treated fairly, as indeed you want to. You have your drips about your life and we have our drips about ours.