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Entry requirements for Royal Navy Officer

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
the_bear_thfc said:
Thanks for the reply and advice super mario. I phoned up the careers advisor down my local branch (Chatham, home of Nelson) and he basically said that you would have to resit your maths GCSE no matter what other grades or achievements i possess. So although i agree with you lonestar in relation to the laps / distant in time of the retake, that doesnt seem to have a barring. However as i phoned up anonymously i do feel that he just threw me off, i feel that if i went down and spoke to the afco that i have had previous dealings with, i feel that he would be able to guide me better.

Additionally, slim, you just sound a very bitter twisted old man. One that sounds like he is waiting to 'pop his clogs', obviously slime by name but not by physique! Or could your username possibly be describing the 'probability' (pardon the mathematical pun) that you put you're brain into gear before speaking. Furthermore, 'pot kettle' where you have said I lack basic english capability. As I said in my last post that my English grade was fine. Maybe you are the individual that needs to go back and brush up on their reading and analytical skills?!

Finally angrydoc, Bachelor of honors is just the same as bachelor of arts, bachelor of science. My degree was upperclass second (2.1) in bachelor of law (basically a posh was of saying 2.1 in Law). Additionally to say that it is easier to get into university on a whole is 100% wrong. To get into university to study lesser subjects such as American history or animal care then yes it is, as its a government money making machine. However to do proper subjects, like law, maths, engineering or things to do whith science its getting harder and harder. The more money the universities are getting from the 'mugs' that are doing the mickey mouse courses, they are pumping back into the University to improve facilities. This then consequently results in charging higher fees, and also deman higher entry requirements (higher ucas points).

Thanks for the update on Nelson, I was obviously mislead when some barsteward told me he was dead.
 
angrydoc said:
Hmm. Do crap at school then get a degree. That could mean that school standards were crap, or that University standards were crap. You can't accept one side of the argument without at least acknowledging the other. It is a lot easier to get into Uni now than before, and there are lots of people with random degrees which qualify them to do sweet FA.

TheBear - please educate me. What on earth is Bachelor of honours in law? I've never heard of that one.

That's not entirely true. The grade entrance for most degrees is about BBB to ABB, and the busier places are asking for anything from AAB to AAAA. Although granted, there are plenty of micky mouse degrees to boot.

I'd put the issue with failing schools, I can only speak from experience in the North West, but the school I went to failed Ofsted inspections, had all the staff sacked in the final year, and entered special measures.

This assumption that people with poor academic standards can enter a degree is pretty much unfounded. If you do terrible at your GCSE's and don't make up for it in college/sixth form, then you aren't going anywhere. Anybody who can achieve B's and A's in an A-level is presumably not of a poor academic standard, and should be rightly given the chance to go to university; they've already introduced an A* A-level just to make the competition one step harder..

-edit- On that note, I've met plenty of people with A's across the board, who are thicker than a Frenchman's ego.
 

lonestar

War Hero
the_bear_thfc said:
he basically said that you would have to resit your maths GCSE no matter what other grades or achievements i possess. So although i agree with you lonestar in relation to the laps / distant in time of the retake, that doesnt seem to have a barring.

Not according to the official document:

0518. Thirteen Month Rule
Qualifying subjects must normally have been obtained within a maximum spread of time of 13 months. Discretion may be given to candidates with exceptional qualities or those with exceptional circumstances (e.g. family break-up) which may have affected examination results. In cases of doubt advice must be sought from AIB.

[quote='the_bear_thfc"]Finally angrydoc, Bachelor of honors is just the same as bachelor of arts, bachelor of science. My degree was upperclass second (2.1) in bachelor of law (basically a posh was of saying 2.1 in Law).[/quote]

Actually your degree was an 'upper second class' not an 'upperclass second', it was a 'Bachelor of Laws' not 'in bachelor of law'. Similarly a 'bachelor of honours' is not the same as 'bachelor of arts' or 'bachelor of science' it is a level of achievement. For example 'a bachelor of arts with honours', a 'bachelor of honours' alone does not exist. :roll:

What was it you were saying about university standards?
 

the_bear_thfc

Midshipman
Anyway, lonestar, back to my problem. What would you advice be then? ... To go down to the afco that i have a familiar rapour with and speak to him. I've herd that despite the vigirous requirements, much of the application can be down to discretion from a higher board anyway. Therefore, their guidance being how i portray my self?! What do you think?
 

lonestar

War Hero
the_bear_thfc said:
Anyway, lonestar, back to my problem. What would you advice be then? ... To go down to the afco that i have a familiar rapour with and speak to him. I've herd that despite the vigirous requirements, much of the application can be down to discretion from a higher board anyway. Therefore, their guidance being how i portray my self?! What do you think?

SuperMario is the professional careers advisor not me, so as he suggested I would go in and see the AFCO staff dealing with your application. Explain the full circumstances and they will have to apply to the relevant decision making body, I think the AIB, for a waiver. You wait for the decision then take it from there.
 

the_bear_thfc

Midshipman
Ok wicked pal! I guess, if i do get a waiver, I'll have to blitz every test thrown at me! Show all the personal, mental and physical qualities needed to be a Royal Naval Officer.

Just a quick question to either lonestar or super mario. What are the chances of getting a waiver and what could i do to support my application to get it?

Thanks for your help lonestar and super mario.
regards
 
lonestar said:
the_bear_thfc said:
Anyway, lonestar, back to my problem. What would you advice be then? ... To go down to the afco that i have a familiar rapour with and speak to him. I've herd that despite the vigirous requirements, much of the application can be down to discretion from a higher board anyway. Therefore, their guidance being how i portray my self?! What do you think?

SuperMario is the professional careers advisor not me, so as he suggested I would go in and see the AFCO staff dealing with your application. Explain the full circumstances and they will have to apply to the relevant decision making body, I think the AIB, for a waiver. You wait for the decision then take it from there.

Dear Spurs fan,

At the end of the day you need to drive your application, all part of showing you have what is required to become an officer. If you don't have your Maths GCSE it is to late now (13 month rule). That's why I advised you to ring the officer section in the London office (the Chatham officer recruiter works from there as well).

You could also ask the Chatham office when there officer recruiter is in next and ask if you could have a chat with Lt Fuller.

The Navy's rules are fairly ****, even I'll admit that. But the fact is you should have 5 GCSE's at A to C to include Maths and English plus 180 UCAS points. The Navy only becomes interested in your degree if you are joining as an Engineering/Medical officer, apart form the fact as a graduate you will join on more money.

At then end of the day as an officer candidate you need to be self-driven and it's down to you to do the running around to get everything sorted.

SM

:)
 

the_bear_thfc

Midshipman
Yes, big Spurs fan! Who do you support then Super mario?

That post was most helpful cheers pal! Basically its all in my hands; WICKED! I'll ring them up today and try to get hold of Lt Fuller, I already knew he was the guy that I would have to deal with once I got on the officer side of things.

Cheers again super mario! :)
 

slim

War Hero
the_bear_thfc said:
Thanks for the reply and advice super mario. I phoned up the careers advisor down my local branch (Chatham, home of Nelson) and he basically said that you would have to resit your maths GCSE no matter what other grades or achievements i possess. So although i agree with you lonestar in relation to the laps / distant in time of the retake, that doesnt seem to have a barring. However as i phoned up anonymously i do feel that he just threw me off, i feel that if i went down and spoke to the afco that i have had previous dealings with, i feel that he would be able to guide me better.

Additionally, slim, you just sound a very bitter twisted old man. One that sounds like he is waiting to 'pop his clogs', obviously slime by name but not by physique! Or could your username possibly be describing the 'probability' (pardon the mathematical pun) that you put you're brain into gear before speaking. Furthermore, 'pot kettle' where you have said I lack basic english capability. As I said in my last post that my English grade was fine. Maybe you are the individual that needs to go back and brush up on their reading and analytical skills?!

Finally angrydoc, Bachelor of honors is just the same as bachelor of arts, bachelor of science. My degree was upperclass second (2.1) in bachelor of law (basically a posh was of saying 2.1 in Law). Additionally to say that it is easier to get into university on a whole is 100% wrong. To get into university to study lesser subjects such as American history or animal care then yes it is, as its a government money making machine. However to do proper subjects, like law, maths, engineering or things to do whith science its getting harder and harder. The more money the universities are getting from the 'mugs' that are doing the mickey mouse courses, they are pumping back into the University to improve facilities. This then consequently results in charging higher fees, and also deman higher entry requirements (higher ucas points).

So you got a C at GCSE, that in the old days of GCE would have been a fail.
I took my GCE English and Math at age 33, the results Grade A in English and B in Math. I then did a day release course and achieved an ONC in telecommunications by age 36. Yes I started late.
After redundancy in 92 I completed my HNC in Computing and Electronics.
I am not bitter or twisted or even waiting to pop my clogs, I am however pissed off at the way this government has reduced the standards in Education.
Not only me but many employers are stating the same. Something is extremely wrong with the system when graduates are do not have the basic skills to be employable
 
Hello to “the_bear_thfc†and welcome,

Re your very First Post

Point 1. ….have just finished my degree at university and have decided that my future lies in joining the Royal Navy as an officer. However I think i may have a slight problem with my grades…..

Your choice of words (and possibly even your attitude) is wrong – YOU do not decide; you make an application to be considered for a career as an officer in the RN and any eventual decision is made by others.

Point 2. ….I am wondering if anybody could give my a definative* answer….

This an UNOFFICIAL RN website frequented by serving, ex- and wannabee RN/RM folk of all ranks, ages and experiences/lack of experiences (plus a few other waifs and strays with some RN ‘interest’ angle of their own).

Besides our stock-in-trade RN-style banter and Navy-Blue/Lovat-Green/Black humour you should find that there is much reliable, sound advice available here at RR. Very few burning queries have not been raised & answered by your predecessors at some time or other but careful searching is needed to uncover the real nuggets.

With regard to any general recruiting matters you can rely upon genuine information from certain sources; such as our tame AFCO types ie Ninja Stoker and Super Mario, or Soliel. But you must hoist in that their presence/role at RR is NOT to act as a personalised Agony Aunt for those seeking answers to their individual queries and dilemmas.

Any ‘definitive answers’ sought can only be gained from or through your own AFCO, and ideally in person rather than via your anonymous phone calls. (Perhaps you have unwittingly stepped off with the wrong foot, but surely any AFCO relationship must be fostered politely and patiently and backed up with initiative?).


Re your Second post:

Engaging as you have with the likes of Slim (who merely wondered sarcastically about your Maths and English ie sp.*) at this stage of your RR progress was hardly wise; I don’t know the fellow myself and he has now made his own response but any scan of his past Postings may help you to learn a little of him rather than your ill-considered response here:

…. Additionally, slim, you just sound a very bitter twisted old man. One that sounds like he is waiting to 'pop his clogs', obviously slime by name but not by physique! Or could your username possibly be describing the 'probability' (pardon the mathematical pun) that you put you're brain into gear before speaking. Furthermore, 'pot kettle' where you have said I lack basic english capability…..

I strongly recommend that you start to learn the flavour of our RR banter before responding with a knee-jerk reaction like that. Otherwise you will earn neither points nor respect. Besides knowing your people, both are among the essential survival tools for any aspiring Naval Officer.



I wish you well (and indeed any other candidate) in your progress towards a rewarding career in the Royal Navy: but please do try to avoid such spoon-feeding approaches in the future.

Bob.
 
The government HASN'T reduced its standards in education. That's an off the cuff remark, and unfounded. It's no easier these day's to get a high grade than it was 20 years ago, and to pass a degree you still require the same academic ability.

The problem we have isn't that standards have dropped, it's that too many people who don't achieve higher grades are being encouraged to continue in education. I can understand with regards to GCSE's, many students have exterior obstacles that plague most young people (bullying, etc), but I will admit that far too many people who go to college are being encouraged to continue on to university.
 
Although we are veering off-topic, this is a moot point, Flanders_Pigeon_Murder.

Suffice it say that the basic standards of literacy and numeracy of those completing secondary education seem to be much lower than they were not so many years ago. Evidence can be witnessed daily within the Newbie threads and the Nation’s employers cannot all be wrong in holding that same view.

Like Slim, I would expect any recent graduate to have achieved at least a respectable and quantifiable Mathematics & English GCSE standard during their many years of:

“Education, Education, Education†– Just as New Labour promised us all those years ago……

Bob
 

the_bear_thfc

Midshipman
Well apparently there is no such thing as a 'waiver' and a c in maths + english along with 180 ucas points is an absolute minimum before I would be allowed to sit the apptitude tests. Additionally the 13month rule of time in retaking an exam does not exist either. Therefore its back to college/school i'll have to go in order to get the minimum c grade in maths.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
slim said:
Not only me but many employers are stating the same. Something is extremely wrong with the system when graduates are do not have the basic skills to be employable

Ding!

As an old fart, I'm obviously expected to bemoan to the lack of standards ehibited by today's graduates and state that they're not as good as "my generation" so let's compare and contrast....

I finished secondary school in 1981 leaving with 9 O-Levels (4xAs 4xBs and a C) and three A-Levels (2xAs, 1xC). I went to Birmingham University to study Electronic & Computer Engineering and graduated in 1986 with a BSc (no Hons, a pass). In 1994 I started work on a Post Graduate Diploma in Software Engineering with the Open University and in 1998 turned this into a MSc.

By today's standards my O-Levels are not good (I didn't get straight As) and my degree is appalling (and it took 4 years to acquire, rather than the conventional 3). However, I have held down a professional job for more than 20 years and in terms of professional qualifications I have CEng and the European equivalent, EurIng. Has theere been "grade inflation" - the Government deny it vehemently, however there is a wealth of anecdotal evidence from employers and universities that today's school leavers, while they have higher grades than 20 years ago, do not posess some of the basic skills in maths and english; indeed, in a recent conversation with one of my former university tutors he disclosed that the degree course that I took is now a four year course - the extra year is a foundation year at the start of the course to ensure that everyone is up to the required standard in maths and english, the same standard that 25+ years ago was assumed as a result of the students' grades.

Paper qualifications do not, by themselves, demonstrate anything other than the ability to pass exams (in my day) and coursework (today). Professional workplace qualifications, to me at least, are far more meaningful than any GCSE, A-Level or degree (including PhDs). They provide concrete evidence that the holder can hold down a responsible position and be a productive employee. In my career I've encountered a wide range of people, many looking for a job - in my expereince, the paper qualifications gained at school and university lose any value after about 3 years in the work place; after this time, experience, workplace achievements and professional qualifications will be the primary deciding factors in a person's ability to gain a job.

Graduates: just because you owe a huge amount of money that the Government has encouraged you to borrow, does not mean that society owes you anything in terms of assured well-paid employment!
 
Whoever told you the 13 month rules does not exist is mis-informed. Like wise i have been able to forward candidates without all the educational requirements as they had other subjects to be taken into account. Normally the AIB are the only authority for educational requirements in the RN

SM

:)
 

lonestar

War Hero
the_bear_thfc said:
Well apparently there is no such thing as a 'waiver' and a c in maths + english along with 180 ucas points is an absolute minimum before I would be allowed to sit the apptitude tests. Additionally the 13month rule of time in retaking an exam does not exist either. Therefore its back to college/school i'll have to go in order to get the minimum c grade in maths.

Who told you this? As in, was it the Lt. who was mentioned earlier or another knowledgeable individual or was it one of the AFCO staff who may have been misinformed.

The thirteen month rule is right there in writing in the RN's Naval Personnel Management handbook. Similarly waivers do exist, I got one pre-AIB as I had overseas qualifications not on the normal list.

You won't be too happy if you go off and get yourself a GCSE in Maths only to be told you can't use it will you!
 

the_bear_thfc

Midshipman
Yes super mario, I said to the lady that a similar ruling does apply to certain civillian jobs. Additionally when I phoned up and said would I be able to speak to Lt Fuller for a just a quick chat about my application? The response was that, candidates normally cannot speak to Lt Fuller until after they have passed their PJFT, so the answer was a differently worded, no!

So i'm not sure whether to leave it, come back in over a year or so when i've got my predicted maths grade or go back down when I know the person who I want to speak to will be in the office and give it one last go, even though i'll be contradicting that lady.
 

slim

War Hero
BreathingOutOnTheWayUp

Thanks for the backup, however it is not needed, if he wishes to bandy swords then I am certain that my Ultra Sharp Lower Deck Cutlass is more than a match for his Wardroom Sword :p
 

the_bear_thfc

Midshipman
Exactly lonestar! I tried to suggest that politley to the member of staff (I think she is a helper, not sure if she is a fully qualified AFCO, hence why i wanted to speak to the AFCO I have already met or Lt Fuller) . Also knowing that this 13month rule, is 100% the case for other professions. However alternativley in the back of my mind, arguing / going behind the back of any staff down my careers office isnt going to help my application.
 
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