England Expects

Discussion in 'History' started by hobbit, Oct 21, 2006.

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  1. I did look for any earlier reference to Trafalger but no joy so here's a new thread for that remarkable event so long ago. I did visit HMS Victory many moons ago and can find no words to describe what I felt. The imagination could never conjure up the reality of the actual situation and one can only marvel at the accomplishments of the RN against a larger fleet.
    May all who served remember that day as I'm sure they will and share a wee dram or two with mates wherever on the globe. Not sure about any special toast for the occasion so simply CHEERS will have to do,

  2. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    The toast for today is:

    "The immortal memory"

    and is unique in that it is drunk in silence..
  3. TY Silver Fox , perfect for the occasion
  4. I shall ensure I have a tot this evening whilst I am out. I had one last night in one of my old pickle night glasses, but tonight is the correct evening to remember the bravery honour of those men.

    As SF rightly stated - The immortal memory
  5. "Ladies and Gents"

    "The Queen"
  6. I sat tonight ( a day late due to work) listening to Richard Baker describing the battle of Trafalgar to the back drop the the royal marine band. This piece of music never fails to send shivers down my spine.

    It's Sunset that always gets me, was played at my grandad ( ex boot neck) funeral and reduces me to tears no matter what.

    I'm happy to think that at 27 I'm one of the few younger generation that bothers to cremerate such an occasion ( got very mad at cadets not so much as an evening pray as a tot in the wardroom to comrirate).
  7. I think that we have to keep commemorating Trafalgar Day for all time. Its one of the RN's earliest real acheivements and a big one for traditions.

    The Immortal Memory
  8. Hardy was a big lad over 6` tall which was unusual for them days.

    Tis said the final words were “Kiss me Loftyâ€.

  9. Trafalgar rather than being an early real achievement was the crescendoat the end of one of the most succesful naval campaigns ever. It was based on a political system that had been set up to favour the development of trade and industry and that had required an effective navy. The UK had benefited from both the streamlining of the fiscal collection system under the Stuarts and a government optimised to develop the trading and industrial capacity of the nation which meant that not only was a powerful navy needed, it could be afforded (perhaps this would indicate some of the failures we have politicaly today). To satisfy this political need the navy had developed a command system which allowed it's senior officers afloat the scope to succeed. If you then add to this a tactical genius like Nelson then a Trafalgar scale victory becomes almost inevitable. Yes Nelson was the best, but he was the best of a very good bunch, there were others who would have wonTrafalgar, but probably not as descisively.

  10. Hear Hear Peter. And a lot of exceptional achievements since then as well inspired by the example set by NELSON and the Fleet at Trafalgar and before.

    Of interest is how many successes have been achieved despite 'improvements in communications' that have allowed our politicos to increasingly 'meddle' in matters that don't concern them.

    When the politicians fail the military has to step in to put things right - shouldn't that be the cue for politicians to wind their necks in, provide support but otherwise 'shut up'?
  11. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Actually the full quote was:

    "Kiss me Lofty"
    "Ere, no tongues - but I'll turn a blind eye to that!"
  12. Trafalgar Day 1955 HMS Alaunia. Splice the mainbrace. Great.

  13. "Immortal Memory" is the toast for Trafalgar Day. Normally guests remain seated for naval matters, this was because of the deck to deckhead heights.

    It is believed that the words spoken to Captain Hardy was "Kissmet Hardy", meaning "Fate, Hardy". However the last words spoken in a conversation between the two was, when Capt Hardy reported that they had destroyed 14 ships, in which Nelson said, I wagered 20. Nelson finished off with his last words before dying, "Thank God I have done my duty". He then died at 1630.

    Regards, Chris
    Ex CY

  14. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    FH: That is the version that I - and many other Tour Guides who worked on the Victory - told the punters, as it ties in with the popular belief that he said something heroic on his deathbed. No one is doubting that he did utter those memorable quotes, but they weren't his last ones.

    It is now believed by Nelsonian historians that, based on his injuries and general ill-health (and that it took him about 3.5 hours to die), he was not particularly lucid in his dying moments and his last words were in fact "Drink, drink. Fan, fan. Rub, rub.", which seem to indicate "I'm thirsty, I'm hot, I've got an itch." Not particulary heroic or memorable, so the embellished version is repeated every year.

    But like most matelots' accounts, why let the truth get in the way of a good dit?! :wink:
  15. Royals are informed that Nelson's last words were, "That bastard Seekars (The RM sergeant who carried Nelson below) pinched my wallet, it's got 20 quid and Emma's address in.....ARGgggghhh."
  16. I read in a book last evening (about the Napoleonic wars generally, rather than Trafalgar specifically) that Collingwood was displeased about the England Expects signal because he believed that signals should be reserved for operational matters.
  17. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    RC: Correct. Once the "England Expects..." signal was transmitted and the battle commenced, Nelson transmitted "Engage the enemy more closely", which became his last operational order to his Fleet.
  18. As regards the Battle of Trafalgar Nelson seems to get all the glory and not a lot heaped upon Collingwood. Trafalgar was not the end of the wars with France and in fact Collingwood was at sea for seven more years, keeping the French at bay after Trafalgar. Is it because he was a Northerner? he lived in Morpeth where his wife and two daughters lived while he was at sea for these seven years.We have have all heard of Florance Nightingale, How many of you know of Dolly Peel? (An equal heroic Nurse who served on warships during the same era,she came from South Shields)
  19. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Collingwood was recognised certainly by the RN, but Nelson was immortalised in death; furthermore he was highly regarded by Parliament, Royalty and the gentry. In fact he had planned to retire from the RN and enter politics - his favourite 'battle cry' was "Westminster or Death!"
  20. There's a moral there: had he made his battle cry: Westminster or Life, he'd have lived to tell the tale! ;)

    Collingwood was recognised. He got a boys' division named after him at the G Spot! o_O What greater honour could be bestowed! ;)

    ....Oh yes, and a ship named after him too.

    Now admit it, which sounds better as your address:

    Off Wigan Pier
    The Oggin


    Sgtpepperband Division
    Shotley Gate

    Any matelot could serve on HMS Sgtpepperband, but not at the OTHER PLACE! :lol:

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