Engineers in RN

[Shay1991]

I heard around well a girl told me that on her PRNC that once engineers join the RN fully they get £5000, I know this is true with submariners but can anyone confirm it with engineers? Just curious

 

[angry_mac]

But we have plenty of trained and skilled engineers as senior chiefs and WO2s, who are more than capable of stepping up into the wardroom, blows that argument out of the water, it's always been a class thing, they will not allow an engineering officer cadre completely compromised of ex ratings. No bounty required for CPO to go to BRNC.

 

[sgtpepperband]

Those that want it can take it. The incentive is there, Mac. It's up to the potential candidates to be proactive to take advantage of the avenues available to them - it's not about "class" (whatever that is these days).

 

[tiddlyoggy]

There was something I recall that happened just before I joined up in the 80's. I'm not sure of the full details, so standing by for correction, but: my first DO at Sultan had been promoted SD officer under a scheme where several WO's were offered temporary commissions. I think that some of the red tape had been put aside to achieve this, to what extent I don't know. But I imagine that a lot of the CW nonsense (organising summer fairs etc etc) had been binned from the process. To me that can only be a good thing. If they offer promotions to WO's who then prove good enough and like life in the weirdroom let them get on with it. Save money on retention bonuses and may even keep in a few WO's too with hope of further promotion. Not this call sign though!!

 

[SONAR-BENDER]

There was something I recall that happened just before I joined up in the 80's. I'm not sure of the full details, so standing by for correction, but: my first DO at Sultan had been promoted SD officer under a scheme where several WO's were offered temporary commissions. I think that some of the red tape had been put aside to achieve this, to what extent I don't know. But I imagine that a lot of the CW nonsense (organising summer fairs etc etc) had been binned from the process. To me that can only be a good thing. If they offer promotions to WO's who then prove good enough and like life in the weirdroom let them get on with it. Save money on retention bonuses and may even keep in a few WO's too with hope of further promotion. Not this call sign though!!

Ah, you'll be talking about the 'tassles' then! Certain fine specimens, who had to be WOs, were offered the rank of Temporary Acting Sub Lueitenant (TASL). There were supposed to be no Officer pension rights and no advancement past Sub/Lt........

As I recall, that eventually went out the window and most if not all made full Lt in the end.

Staning by to be corrected on the finer points, but that is basically it.


For submariners, Jan Purchase was one...............

 

[BreathingOutOnTheWayUp]

Ah, you'll be talking about the 'tassles' then! Certain fine specimens, who had to be WOs, were offered the rank of Temporary Acting Sub Lueitenant (TASL). There were supposed to be no Officer pension rights and no advancement past Sub/Lt........

As I recall, that eventually went out the window and most if not all made full Lt in the end.

Staning by to be corrected on the finer points, but that is basically it.


For submariners, Jan Purchase was one...............

As was another 'Sonar-Bender' Sam L***h, (one of the first tranche, early '80's - I wrote him up for it.)

 

[alfred_the_great]

But we have plenty of trained and skilled engineers as senior chiefs and WO2s, who are more than capable of stepping up into the wardroom, blows that argument out of the water, it's always been a class thing, they will not allow an engineering officer cadre completely compromised of ex ratings. No bounty required for CPO to go to BRNC.

Apart from the fact that our old branch had about 30 - 40% of it's Officer Corps as UYs/SUYs. Indeed, the only thing stopping them from reaching starred rank is their age when they become Officers; much the same as older Direct Entrants. I know of Capt RN UYs, and loads of Cdr RN UYs and SUYs.

Pretty much the only way to become an Admiral is to join at 21 and be very good, or join slightly older and be very, very, very good

 

[2_deck_dash]

Let's just put this into perspective for one second.

Engineering graduates get an extra 5 grand on top of their pay packet when they join as an officer right? Now given how competitive it is to get into these branches, only the very top applicants are selected to join. Therefore it's pretty fair to say that most if not all of the current crop of young Engineering Officers are among the brightest and best engineers in the country.

A five grand deal sweetener only really brings their entry salary into line with what they could easily earn in civvy street. As I understand it, there is also some return of service attached to it meaning they don't thin out early after getting 'Royal Navy Engineering Officer' on their CV.

 

[tiddlyoggy]

SB-Yes that all sounds exactly like what I was talking about. Jimbo-I agree wrt your point about longevity, but I still feel that mob don't get the best out of the talent available. One of my bezzy oppos is a 2.5 SUY engineer who has been dying to get back to sea to do a WEO job, but they won't give him the chance because of the blooding of younger officers. If he's the best man for the job I don't think age should be an issue, he'll end up leaving before his full time is up because he keeps being offered shit jobs. There must be a way of getting the best of both worlds. There again given the state of RN engineering branches, I won't hold my breath that a practical management solution is ever found iin my lifetime. Lastly, I also agree that the class issue does not apply to SUY's I know some real OD's who have gone down that route.

 

[tiddlyoggy]

As I said mate, I accept your point, but I stilll think talent is being prematurely lost from the SUY stream too, due to job dissatisfaction. Remember the old rugby adage, "Age and treachery will always beats youth and talent".

 

[frogman007]

More or less mate.

There is currently a shortage of graduate engineers across industry as a whole, so to attract people into the RN role they are paid a 'joining bounty' once they finish training (and locked into the RoS) IIRC.

The RN has to remain competitive with industry in this area or we will not have the engineering officers for the future (as I said before, they really should think about an RN Engineering College ... hang on a minute :shock: )

EDIT TO ADD: Caveat, a proper recruiting professional will no doubt be able to give the full ins and outs of the offer details.

And not just engineering. Quite a few trades are in demand outside. I would imagine the mob will/ is only paying incentives to the branches that are really struggling????

 

[alfred_the_great]

PWOs are an OPP.

Interestingly, the recent RAF Employment Tribunal severely criticised the habit of selecting the younger of 2 candidates for jobs. The concept of succession planning, unless explicit, should be lower than the 'best man for the job'.

 

[alfred_the_great]

But we can't recruit PWOs direct (which was my point regarding engineers), AFAIK there isn't a PWO degree offered by any civilian university for civilian candidates (happy to be proven wrong) :wink:

What do you think the RAN and RNZN have been doing in the back of Navy News for the last 15+ years?

 

[alfred_the_great]

No, but you can, as the RAN and RNZN have successfully done, directly recruit PWOs. If you want to get picky about it, you can recruit them from the University of Kingston as MSc Graduates.

But to go back to the wider point made by Mac, there are plenty of UYs and SUYs who become Engineering Officers.

 

[alfred_the_great]

And we can poach from them, if it wasn't for the contracting Fleet, rubbish weather and rubbish runs ashore.

 

[alfred_the_great]

Mate, I was joking, the RAN and RNZN take fully qualified RN PWOs and then employ them directly. There is nothing to stop us doing exactly the same, apart from the fact I know of very few people who want to leave the RAN and RNZN to join the RN. All of my course were quietly approached by the Kiwi and asked if we wanted to swap over after our first jobs; I have no doubt Guns also had a similar suggestion.

 

[alfred_the_great]

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