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ENGINEERS: Financial Retention Incentive

Babbamorris

Midshipman
Has anybody heard info on this.

I spoke to DFOST Friday and he said £21000 for PO's & £28000 for CPO's all for 3 years service. Crazy really as they never seam to work.

Free money as far as I can see.


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Has anybody heard info on this.

I spoke to DFOST Friday and he said £21000 for PO's & £28000 for CPO's all for 3 years service. Crazy really as they never seam to work.

Free money as far as I can see.


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Free money - but it will come at a price. Those who sign up will be first in the queue to get drafted to submarines!!
 
There will usually be a pricey return of service as well, don't expect anything less than three years. However, it should all be detailed in either an RNTM or DIN. If he's going to give you dits like that, he should be able to tell you which it is - otherwise, pop into the UPO and aggressively ask the baby writer manning the duty desk. They'll only be too pleased to help.
 

danny

War Hero
Again missing out killicks just as the Submarine WE branches have.
They can just grow killicks they say, shame they don't try and grow some senior rates as well.
 

Babbamorris

Midshipman
I never mentioned Submariners they get enough money. I'm thinking GS


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danny

War Hero
I never mentioned Submariners they get enough money. I'm thinking GS


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Submariner TWS and SWS SRs are getting £50,000 for 4 years (maybe 5). So far they are proving 50k is not enough to make people stay.
 

Babbamorris

Midshipman
Exactly. They need to react quick as our Navy is disappearing.


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wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
Again missing out killicks just as the Submarine WE branches have.
They can just grow killicks they say, shame they don't try and grow some senior rates as well.

FRIs are targeted at the groups where the 'hole' and the 'effect' is felt - of late you'll have seem RNTMs detailing reducing/removing educational requirements for promotions/OPS etc. All part of efforts to get AB through the pipeline quicker once they're experienced and ready for promotion.

The problem the Navy appears to have is further along the manning chain from Senior PO to WO2, so they are targeting that first as it is having the greatest impact.

There may well be manning issues all along the chain but the source of money is not infinite so they have to target the area they can get the best returns from.
 

danny

War Hero
FRIs are targeted at the groups where the 'hole' and the 'effect' is felt - of late you'll have seem RNTMs detailing reducing/removing educational requirements for promotions/OPS etc. All part of efforts to get AB through the pipeline quicker once they're experienced and ready for promotion.

The problem the Navy appears to have is further along the manning chain from Senior PO to WO2, so they are targeting that first as it is having the greatest impact.

There may well be manning issues all along the chain but the source of money is not infinite so they have to target the area they can get the best returns from.

If the problem is promoting people to WO2 this FRI is still not making it worthwhile to be a WO2.

Also I have not met one senior rate who has taken the FRI and said that he was ever going to do anything other than stay in anyway. Seems to most people they are just giving £50k to people for nothing.
 
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angry_mac

War Hero
Submariner TWS and SWS SRs are getting £50,000 for 4 years (maybe 5). So far they are proving 50k is not enough to make people stay.

Yup, go offshore and you'll earn more than this in 5 years, with the added bonus of not staying in a black tube. Plus if you've done 22, drawing the 10 grand pa as well. RN not really that attractive then.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
I believe that the RFA are also hemorrhaging engineers, especially those with Class 2 or Class 1 Certificates of Competency. I haven't heard that there are any incentives - financial or otherwise - being offered to stay or return.
 

Lurchio

Midshipman
Yup, go offshore and you'll earn more than this in 5 years, with the added bonus of not staying in a black tube. Plus if you've done 22, drawing the 10 grand pa as well. RN not really that attractive then.

This is the reason why i will not be taking the FRI if/when it comes out, Chit in this Aug to go outside on Offshore vessels, When i leave i would have done 11 years (12 years boys time), people say why not stay until 12, the only big difference is the 10k grant in which i hope to earn more than that by going offshore.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
If the problem is promoting people to WO2 this FRI is still not making it worthwhile to be a WO2.

Also I have not met one senior rate who has taken the FRI and said that he was ever going to do anything other than stay in anyway. Seems to most people they are just giving £50k to people for nothing.

Not sure in any way or form I said the problem was promoting people to WO2?

There are systemic manning issues - holes have appeared at a variety of SR levels hence the FRIs and to my knowledge the uptake is as expected. If the Navy want to relieve manning pressure by 3 years or so then this is a reasonable mechanism.

What people tell you and what they actually do are often very different.....
 

cjg375

Lantern Swinger
This sticking plaster will probably work for a wee while. The big problem for the Armed Forces is coming though. When people realise that even if you make WO and stay in until you are 55 the pension at 55 will no longer be enough to retire on. So people will need to choose between leaving at 40 or earlier to pursue a second career or trying to find that second career at 50+. I foresee the take up of EC dropping markedly and EC is pretty much all that is keeping the manning plots from implosion. When that happens FRIs will not do anything to stop it.


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wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
This sticking plaster will probably work for a wee while.

FRIs are indeed that but NEM and behind NEM there is further work ongoing to look at alternatives in an attempt to mitigate any further manning pinch points.

I didn't realise that upon making WO you could stay to 55?

In anycase I'm not really sure the majority of military pensions have ever been viewed as sufficient to live on solely after a Naval career. For most people there will always be that decision when to leave and forge ahead with a second career or to stick with the Navy. Everyone has different needs and wants but it was more the norm to leave after 22. In the future a shorter ten sure may suit everyone?

Options to take-up EC until recently were quite constrained, like FRIs they are but a short term palliative. Equally using FTRS. There are lots of levers the manners can use in short, controlled bursts but ultimately until we're given a higher Manning Control Total and can recruit to that (or excess) we'll have snags. That's beyond our control.
 

cjg375

Lantern Swinger
I'm pretty sure that WO1, or WO in future, brings with it a career to 55 automatically. The point I was making though was that if you do stay til 55 and happen to get WO then on full AFPS 15 you'd probably get about £10k a year pension. On AFPS75 you'd have had more like £20 odd K. I've known many who have stayed that long and been able to fully retire at 55. That won't be the case in future. Also with a quick calculation, based on this years pay levels, if you did a full 20 year career on AFPS15, spending 4 years at each of the 5 rates you would have about £16000 a year pension of which you'd only see about £5k a year until age 69 to 70. The pension is no longer a retention tool.


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danny

War Hero
Not sure in any way or form I said the problem was promoting people to WO2?

There are systemic manning issues - holes have appeared at a variety of SR levels hence the FRIs and to my knowledge the uptake is as expected. If the Navy want to relieve manning pressure by 3 years or so then this is a reasonable mechanism.

What people tell you and what they actually do are often very different.....

How about being a bit more forward thinking and trying to keep the people who are going to plug these holes in the navy. With the removal of the foundation degree they need some incentive to keep killicks in. That decision has been totally overlooked and I can tell you in the next 12 months is very much going to become an issue.
This isn't being bitter by the way, I have a plan for the future and despite enjoying most of my career there is not enough money they could offer me in form of FRI to keep me in.
But in my experience of seeing who has and who hasn't taken the FRI the ones that have were never going to leave and hence the navy has given them money for nothing.
 
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