End of the line for MTO/NCAGS?

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by broadside, Jan 13, 2007.

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  1. I hear on the grapevine that the oic at UKMTO Dubai is about to be replaced by an RNR AW officer.

    Speaking as someone who has been on the receiving end of some of the output from UKMTO Dubai in the last few years (both as an RNR working with the RN and as a MN officer) I think they have done a fabulous job and long may it continue.

    I also think that this is an ideal opportunity for AW (since we have got a unique foot in both camps with MN experience and RN experience)

    I have to say though that UKMTO Dubai is the only serious thing that MTO/NCAGS have done since TELIC and I wonder why they have given it away.

    My understanding is that despite the size of the MTO Branch they were incapable of finding anyone to take the oic job on, and have even had trouble finding people for the rest of the team - if the jewel in the crown has been given away is this the end of the line for the MTO/NCAGS Branch?
  2. I am assuming because of the time of your post you were not at the MTO National weekend?
  3. Since I am not MTO/NCAGS nor in the UK at the moment you are correct
  4. I think the rapidly increasing interest in MTO and NAMESIS by the RN has signalled the death knells for the branch.
  5. As an NCAGS person, currently not in the UK, could someone explain:

    1. What did happen at the National Weekend?
    2. If an AW officer is goint to MTO Dubai, why was there no trawl around the NCAGS community?
    3. If there is more RN interest in MTO why would this make it less relevant to the RN?
    4. Perhaps DUBAIPUSSER would like to at his comments?
  6. 1. Lots, if you need to know, I can PM you
    2. There was, no one wanted it I guess
    3. Quite, I think Broadside should lay his cards on the table and I do not understand Jim's logic
    4. Always welcome, if he has finished the Xmas pud
  7. No cards to lay on the table RC - I am a MN Master Mariner (and an RNR AW officer) and I would have liked a pop at UKMTO Dubai but wasn't aware that it was open to non NCAGS types.

    My question was simply to clarify whether the buzz was a gen dit - which it seems is the case - and to ask whether this is the thin end of the wedge for MTO (NCAGS-style) as it gives way to MTO (AW-style).

    If there are more opportunities going to be springing up for someone like me then I would like to know.
  8. "3. If there is more RN interest in MTO why would this make it less relevant to the RN?"

    Because they're treating it like their trainset that's why! Expect the RN to do badly what the RNR has been doing for years, and for us to be fed the crumbs (and be grateful for it mind you)
  9. Broadside, my apologies I did not mean to sound defensive. I have just spent the better part of three years transferring from Ops(HQ) to MTO(N). I can speak only from the perspective of a SR in the branch and I am sure that far better qualified and experienced personnel will be able to correct me if I am wrong.

    However, the message from the MTO(N) weekend is that we are on the up. I think you are right about it being quite dire that no MTO(N) personnel were able to go out to Dubai. But from a ratings perspective it was very widely promulgated (I cannot speak for the officers, but I am certain they have a network!). Being realistic they were asking for volunteers, if I volunteer I will lose my job. The option would be to be mobilised, and you understand the implications of that on ones job, and this is what happened to the ABs post. Again I cannot speak for the other two posts.

    Moving to Jim's point, which now makes more sense to me. I can what he is saying but with stretch why would the RN take away tasks that are most emminently suited to a reserve type environment - one does not need MTO except in times of heightened tension - there would be no point for instance in having an MTO Southampton would there.

    Further than that I cannot comment.
  10. Now the cat is out of the bag I suppose I am free to make a couple of observations;

    1 - Comfort eating of Xmas Puddings has done little to improve the way I feel about this 'capitulation' by NCAGS - to give away UKMTO Dubai to the amphibians is a disgrace - I just hope it doesn't lead to lost NCAGS officer training billets out here (I understand there are several AW officer names in the hat to come out here and only a few opportunities available if we are not going to take slots away from NAMESIS Operator training).
    2. Actually there is no 2nd observation, number 1 just about does it!

    I would be interested to know how many NCAGS officers were aware of the billet and what reasons were given for not volunteering but, to be honest, it is all water under the bridge now.

    I feel desperately sad that NCAGS has let it slip through our fingers but good luck to the new boy when he takes over in April and well done AW for seeing the opportunity and grabbing it with both hands ... now, when you have finished with it can we please have our ball back?
  11. DP, on a brief side track, it would have been lovely to meet you at the
    MTO(N) weekend but understand you must have shed loads of one armed paper hanging still to do.

    Hope to see you at the next one.

  12. So we have a situation whereby a AW person is taking over an MTO role, that I certainly did not know was available. Perhaps no one in NCAGS knew it was available, is this a conspiracy or cockup? Since this was probably from CMR it was more of the later, as most of the CMR are too stupid to think!

    Nothing new, Media Ops could not get anyone to theatre and an SO1 from another specialisation went there.

    Of course, the reason that no one is being mobilised, is it is cheaper to recall someone and perhaps there are more AW people (without real jobs) than NCAGS officers!?!?!?!

    Nevertheless would be very interested why all existing NCAGS officers where not (at the very least) given a chance!
  13. Not so , in September last year the Nato Shipping Centre at Nwood was manned pretty much exclusively my RNR MTO officers and a Senior Rate, i consider that quite a serious thing, do get your facts right
  14. Bottom line - was a trawl issued to fill the slot internally? If not, why not?
    Or was this yet another example of OMOBS 'jobs for the boys' attitude that has a very interesting whiff around it?
  15. Fighting talk Master Chief! I hadn't intended my post to offend but clearly you have taken it that way so stand by - Broadside by name, Broadside by nature!

    Sorry old chap but if you think that a few week stint in the NATO Shipping Centre is a serious contibution to RN/Coalition - Merchant Navy relations perhaps you are in the wrong job!

    What UKMTO Dubai has been doing has been of immense value and relevance to Masters (like me!) who have found the information, support and presence of UKMTO Dubai to be hugely reassuring as we have transited sea areas under their 'control'.

    What the MTO function was off Israel I do not know having not been there at the time but a few weeks tracking ship movements does not equate to 5 years (and counting)of consistent and high quality support across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea and Persian Gulf including 3 active piracy areas and a lot of unpleasantness in between) so before you try to hang on to UKMTO Dubai's shirt tails with your 'experiences' at the NATO Shipping Centre - step back and think about it!

    I should also add that I have had contact with the NATO SC on Active Endeavour in the Med over the last couple of years - not a patch on what UKMTO Dubai has been doing for their area - well done DP and team you are obviously on top of your game - sorry to see you go and I (for one) hope your relief is up to your standard - lucky bast*rd).
  16. Strongly suspect the latter. The job was certainly not trawled anywhere near NCAGS officers in my unit.
  17. Thats because the SC is tasked differently to UKMTO Dubai. That being said, I fully endorse your comments re DP and his team.
  18. DP

    I have reviewed the MTO update emails back to Oct and can find no ref to officers billets. The references to ratings billets goes back before that time and whilst I was certainly aware of the requirement (being KA) I do know that many people were not - as indeed we have discussed in the past.

    I applaud the professional and exemplary work that the UKMTO team have done, i consider it an example of a high quality operation, i was not drawing a comparison, merely drawing the readers eyes to a correction..
    Five years of sterling work stands alone without too many equals BZ .
  20. I've heard similar things less than complementary things about Active Endavour - its an interesting place their part of the NSC - its sort of what I'd imagined a retirement home for NATO Naval Officers to look like!
    The OP HIGHBROW stuff was classic NCAGS, excellent support and of real value to the MCC. Ask any NCAGS officer present at the time as to who valued their support was. I know the MTO Dubai does similar sterling work, professionally I've used their services for real on several occassions when it has made a VERY signficant impact on real world operations. I would be very dissapointed if the in depth NCAGS knowledge were to be lost to the AW branch for this slot (no slur intended on the AW personnel though).

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