Originally posted this in response to some comments in the "Closure of a Dockyard" thread, But thought I'd move it as it's not directly relevant to that debate...but is one worth having in its own right...
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Seawolf wrote:
safewalrus wrote:
we've bloody well surrendered already! Can't you feel the knife between your shoulder blades, curtesy of B'liar and company!
I think you might be right, we are becoming the minority. I did some work in Bognor Regis last year, of a population of about 45,000. Some 10.000 of them are eastern Europeans. And this is just 1 seaside town, just think what its like accross the UK.
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My views: Please don't make ignorant comments about topics you obviously don't know much about, other than from reading the red tops.
Yes, the recent immigration of especially Poles is probably the largest into the UK since the Hugenots; yes, in some specific areas they are driving down wages due to competition (not a bad thing if, like most of us, you are a consumer of such services as plumbing...); however in the vast majority of cases they are employed in jobs most Brits WON'T do (agricultural, cleaning, fish factories etc.).
So do you realise that without them, GB Plc would be more than a little the worse off - AND THIS INCLUDES DEFENCE BUDGETS WHICH WE ALL LIKE DRIPPING ABOUT SO MUCH!
And to prove it's not just my bleeding heart liberal views, here are some statistics independent of both my industry (financial services, so yes, I actually do know what I'm talking about) and also is independent of politicians and media of all colours.
Source is the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (http://www.niesr.ac.uk/pubs/searchdetailprint.php?PublicationID=1356):
• Immigration since 1997 has expanded UK GDP by about 3 per cent.
• In 2004/5 it contributed about 1 percentage point to the overall growth of 5.3 per cent in this period [edited by me to add: in pounds and pence this is about £13.7 BILLION net...].
• 11.6 per cent of 25-34 year olds in the UK have arrived since 1997
• Immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe in 2004 and 2005 have been younger than earlier immigrants and more likely to work in low-skill jobs [edited by me to add: and many of them have degrees but still work in menial jobs...don't know too many Brits who'd do that...].
• Unless immigrants make disproportionate demands on the welfare system, the structure of taxation means that they are net contributors to the rest of the economy [edited by me to add: in fact, as they are mostly under 35, single, and therefore have a lower-than-average utilisation of both the NHS and education budgets amongst others...and they pay all their council taxes and National Insurance contributions, they are funding...oh yes...our parents' and grandparents' pensions NOW!].
So there. Please look at the facts! And to contextualise, in this case specifically the defence budget - The UK Defence budget in 2005/06 is some £30.1Bn, or 2.2% if GDP (Source: MOD).
Do the maths, mateys....these guys have paid for, and are continuing to pay for, a rather chunky percentage of the defence budget...
I saw welcome to Blighty, and thank you!
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Seawolf wrote:
safewalrus wrote:
we've bloody well surrendered already! Can't you feel the knife between your shoulder blades, curtesy of B'liar and company!
I think you might be right, we are becoming the minority. I did some work in Bognor Regis last year, of a population of about 45,000. Some 10.000 of them are eastern Europeans. And this is just 1 seaside town, just think what its like accross the UK.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My views: Please don't make ignorant comments about topics you obviously don't know much about, other than from reading the red tops.
Yes, the recent immigration of especially Poles is probably the largest into the UK since the Hugenots; yes, in some specific areas they are driving down wages due to competition (not a bad thing if, like most of us, you are a consumer of such services as plumbing...); however in the vast majority of cases they are employed in jobs most Brits WON'T do (agricultural, cleaning, fish factories etc.).
So do you realise that without them, GB Plc would be more than a little the worse off - AND THIS INCLUDES DEFENCE BUDGETS WHICH WE ALL LIKE DRIPPING ABOUT SO MUCH!
And to prove it's not just my bleeding heart liberal views, here are some statistics independent of both my industry (financial services, so yes, I actually do know what I'm talking about) and also is independent of politicians and media of all colours.
Source is the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (http://www.niesr.ac.uk/pubs/searchdetailprint.php?PublicationID=1356):
• Immigration since 1997 has expanded UK GDP by about 3 per cent.
• In 2004/5 it contributed about 1 percentage point to the overall growth of 5.3 per cent in this period [edited by me to add: in pounds and pence this is about £13.7 BILLION net...].
• 11.6 per cent of 25-34 year olds in the UK have arrived since 1997
• Immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe in 2004 and 2005 have been younger than earlier immigrants and more likely to work in low-skill jobs [edited by me to add: and many of them have degrees but still work in menial jobs...don't know too many Brits who'd do that...].
• Unless immigrants make disproportionate demands on the welfare system, the structure of taxation means that they are net contributors to the rest of the economy [edited by me to add: in fact, as they are mostly under 35, single, and therefore have a lower-than-average utilisation of both the NHS and education budgets amongst others...and they pay all their council taxes and National Insurance contributions, they are funding...oh yes...our parents' and grandparents' pensions NOW!].
So there. Please look at the facts! And to contextualise, in this case specifically the defence budget - The UK Defence budget in 2005/06 is some £30.1Bn, or 2.2% if GDP (Source: MOD).
Do the maths, mateys....these guys have paid for, and are continuing to pay for, a rather chunky percentage of the defence budget...
I saw welcome to Blighty, and thank you!