Eastern European Immigration

[RNRAWBOD]

Originally posted this in response to some comments in the "Closure of a Dockyard" thread, But thought I'd move it as it's not directly relevant to that debate...but is one worth having in its own right...

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Seawolf wrote:
safewalrus wrote:
we've bloody well surrendered already! Can't you feel the knife between your shoulder blades, curtesy of B'liar and company!

I think you might be right, we are becoming the minority. I did some work in Bognor Regis last year, of a population of about 45,000. Some 10.000 of them are eastern Europeans. And this is just 1 seaside town, just think what its like accross the UK.

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My views: Please don't make ignorant comments about topics you obviously don't know much about, other than from reading the red tops.

Yes, the recent immigration of especially Poles is probably the largest into the UK since the Hugenots; yes, in some specific areas they are driving down wages due to competition (not a bad thing if, like most of us, you are a consumer of such services as plumbing...); however in the vast majority of cases they are employed in jobs most Brits WON'T do (agricultural, cleaning, fish factories etc.).

So do you realise that without them, GB Plc would be more than a little the worse off - AND THIS INCLUDES DEFENCE BUDGETS WHICH WE ALL LIKE DRIPPING ABOUT SO MUCH!

And to prove it's not just my bleeding heart liberal views, here are some statistics independent of both my industry (financial services, so yes, I actually do know what I'm talking about) and also is independent of politicians and media of all colours.

Source is the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (http://www.niesr.ac.uk/pubs/searchdetailprint.php?PublicationID=1356):

• Immigration since 1997 has expanded UK GDP by about 3 per cent.

• In 2004/5 it contributed about 1 percentage point to the overall growth of 5.3 per cent in this period [edited by me to add: in pounds and pence this is about £13.7 BILLION net...].

• 11.6 per cent of 25-34 year olds in the UK have arrived since 1997

• Immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe in 2004 and 2005 have been younger than earlier immigrants and more likely to work in low-skill jobs [edited by me to add: and many of them have degrees but still work in menial jobs...don't know too many Brits who'd do that...].

• Unless immigrants make disproportionate demands on the welfare system, the structure of taxation means that they are net contributors to the rest of the economy [edited by me to add: in fact, as they are mostly under 35, single, and therefore have a lower-than-average utilisation of both the NHS and education budgets amongst others...and they pay all their council taxes and National Insurance contributions, they are funding...oh yes...our parents' and grandparents' pensions NOW!].

So there. Please look at the facts! And to contextualise, in this case specifically the defence budget - The UK Defence budget in 2005/06 is some £30.1Bn, or 2.2% if GDP (Source: MOD).

Do the maths, mateys....these guys have paid for, and are continuing to pay for, a rather chunky percentage of the defence budget...

I saw welcome to Blighty, and thank you!

 

[Nutty]

What is the a person on RR talking sense about immigration. I am with you RNRAWBOD


Gentlemen it is all about supply and demand in a two way free market. There is nothing to stop you going to Poland or many other countries world wide and offering your skills at a price you wish to charge you may not get employed of course. Many do and can be found working in all regions of the world. I know of a husband and wife team who are teachers currently working in Moscow having been in the Mid East for five years.

But lets not whinge if a Pole will do the same job as you for two thirds the pay. No doubt if you were offered a job in the West Indies at a pay rate you thought was excellent you would not making enquiries to ensure you were not taking a job from a local cos they get paid more. GET REAL.

It is suprising that most of the critics of immigrants who demand controls come from the ranks of the right, BNP and Tories who also hold the torch for free trade. Either its free or controled but no, you want your cake and you wish to eat it.

BZ RNRAWBOD


Nutty

 

[Maxi_77]

I would add to the above info that many of the Poles in particular are not coming here to settle permanently but to earn some cash to get them started in business etc back home in Poland. They work hard, seen in general to keep out of trouble, although one girl was foolish enough to get herself murderded (more about being a girl than being Polish).

Peter

 

[slim]

Originally posted this in response to some comments in the "Closure of a Dockyard" thread, But thought I'd move it as it's not directly relevant to that debate...but is one worth having in its own right...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seawolf wrote:
safewalrus wrote:
we've bloody well surrendered already! Can't you feel the knife between your shoulder blades, curtesy of B'liar and company!

I think you might be right, we are becoming the minority. I did some work in Bognor Regis last year, of a population of about 45,000. Some 10.000 of them are eastern Europeans. And this is just 1 seaside town, just think what its like accross the UK.

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My views: Please don't make ignorant comments about topics you obviously don't know much about, other than from reading the red tops.

Yes, the recent immigration of especially Poles is probably the largest into the UK since the Hugenots; yes, in some specific areas they are driving down wages due to competition (not a bad thing if, like most of us, you are a consumer of such services as plumbing...); however in the vast majority of cases they are employed in jobs most Brits WON'T do (agricultural, cleaning, fish factories etc.).

So do you realise that without them, GB Plc would be more than a little the worse off - AND THIS INCLUDES DEFENCE BUDGETS WHICH WE ALL LIKE DRIPPING ABOUT SO MUCH!

And to prove it's not just my bleeding heart liberal views, here are some statistics independent of both my industry (financial services, so yes, I actually do know what I'm talking about) and also is independent of politicians and media of all colours.

Source is the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (http://www.niesr.ac.uk/pubs/searchdetailprint.php?PublicationID=1356):

• Immigration since 1997 has expanded UK GDP by about 3 per cent.

• In 2004/5 it contributed about 1 percentage point to the overall growth of 5.3 per cent in this period [edited by me to add: in pounds and pence this is about £13.7 BILLION net...].

• 11.6 per cent of 25-34 year olds in the UK have arrived since 1997

• Immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe in 2004 and 2005 have been younger than earlier immigrants and more likely to work in low-skill jobs [edited by me to add: and many of them have degrees but still work in menial jobs...don't know too many Brits who'd do that...].

• Unless immigrants make disproportionate demands on the welfare system, the structure of taxation means that they are net contributors to the rest of the economy [edited by me to add: in fact, as they are mostly under 35, single, and therefore have a lower-than-average utilisation of both the NHS and education budgets amongst others...and they pay all their council taxes and National Insurance contributions, they are funding...oh yes...our parents' and grandparents' pensions NOW!].

So there. Please look at the facts! And to contextualise, in this case specifically the defence budget - The UK Defence budget in 2005/06 is some £30.1Bn, or 2.2% if GDP (Source: MOD).

Do the maths, mateys....these guys have paid for, and are continuing to pay for, a rather chunky percentage of the defence budget...

I saw welcome to Blighty, and thank you!

The majority of immigrants from the Eastern Europe are here for a relatively short time and because of this many pay little or no tax. They do all however pay NI contributions. I agree that they are doing low paid work that our own citizens refuse to do. This is because the benefit system does not encourage those on benefits to accept low paid work. But this is another subject.
There are now many couples coming from the eastern block and bringing their children with them. In small towns (for example LLannelli Wales) these children are now forming 50% of school populations. Resources from the government have not been increased to help ease the financial burdon which is presently being shouldered by council tax payers. These immigrants tend to live in extremely cramped conditions and the amount per head of council tax paid is extremely low.
There is no way that these temporary residents are net in putters to our society.
The people who are benefiting are the gangmasters, the landlords and especially the people who employ them.

 

[RNRAWBOD]

I do not disagree with local hot spots and schooling issues etc., however this is an allocation of resource issue for the government to sort out.

Which admittedly they ain't doing a terribly good job of at a local level on occasion. Which is centralised governments for you! Net impact however remains positive, as per the overall statistics.

 

[slim]

Eastern europeans living and working in the UK is not a problem. Legoland Windsor and many other places could not function without them. As stated they are willing to work for lower rates of pay than many Brits and the ones I have had contact with seem to work harder. The question really is why with so many unemployed do we need to import labour?

 

[Hawkeye]

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My views: Please don't make ignorant comments about topics you obviously don't know much about, other than from reading the red tops.

Yes, the recent immigration of especially Poles is probably the largest into the UK since the Hugenots; yes, in some specific areas they are driving down wages due to competition (not a bad thing if, like most of us, you are a consumer of such services as plumbing...); however in the vast majority of cases they are employed in jobs most Brits WON'T do (agricultural, cleaning, fish factories etc.).

So do you realise that without them, GB Plc would be more than a little the worse off - AND THIS INCLUDES DEFENCE BUDGETS WHICH WE ALL LIKE DRIPPING ABOUT SO MUCH!

And to prove it's not just my bleeding heart liberal views, here are some statistics independent of both my industry (financial services, so yes, I actually do know what I'm talking about) and also is independent of politicians and media of all colours.

Source is the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (http://www.niesr.ac.uk/pubs/searchdetailprint.php?PublicationID=1356):

• Immigration since 1997 has expanded UK GDP by about 3 per cent.

• In 2004/5 it contributed about 1 percentage point to the overall growth of 5.3 per cent in this period [edited by me to add: in pounds and pence this is about £13.7 BILLION net...].

• 11.6 per cent of 25-34 year olds in the UK have arrived since 1997

• Immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe in 2004 and 2005 have been younger than earlier immigrants and more likely to work in low-skill jobs [edited by me to add: and many of them have degrees but still work in menial jobs...don't know too many Brits who'd do that...].

• Unless immigrants make disproportionate demands on the welfare system, the structure of taxation means that they are net contributors to the rest of the economy [edited by me to add: in fact, as they are mostly under 35, single, and therefore have a lower-than-average utilisation of both the NHS and education budgets amongst others...and they pay all their council taxes and National Insurance contributions, they are funding...oh yes...our parents' and grandparents' pensions NOW!].

So there. Please look at the facts! And to contextualise, in this case specifically the defence budget - The UK Defence budget in 2005/06 is some £30.1Bn, or 2.2% if GDP (Source: MOD).

Do the maths, mateys....these guys have paid for, and are continuing to pay for, a rather chunky percentage of the defence budget...

I saw welcome to Blighty, and thank you![/quote]

Your talking tosh shipmate so wind your neck in

The majority of Poles, Slavs, Rumainians etc are working here to earn a fast buck they share houses with many others without paying any or little taxes and contributions. Because of the removal of the tax burdons they can accept the positions that other British Citizens can not afford to take. This is a false economy that is being proliferated by building sites and other users of predominantly manual workers paid cash in hand.
You don'f find them at Mcdonalds etc as these get paid under paye schemes.
They contibute a big fat zero to the defence budget

 

[Maxi_77]

Your talking tosh shipmate so wind your neck in

The majority of Poles, Slavs, Rumainians etc are working here to earn a fast buck they share houses with many others without paying any or little taxes and contributions. Because of the removal of the tax burdons they can accept the positions that other British Citizens can not afford to take. This is a false economy that is being proliferated by building sites and other users of predominantly manual workers paid cash in hand.
You don'f find them at Mcdonalds etc as these get paid under paye schemes.
They contibute a big fat zero to the defence budget

You will find it pretty difficult to get a job on a building site without either being registered for tax with the revenue or paying PAYE at emergency code level unless you have a paye coding. As a general rule the opportunities for being paid cash gross are getting less and less, not non existant I would agree. Most of the places I see Poles working are places wher Tax and NI will be collected by the employer.

If they are happy living 10 in a bed to save on rent and coucil tax good luck to them, aren't we all happy Maggies poll tax has gone, or are ypou suggesting it should be brought back?

Peter

 

[Hawkeye]

Your talking tosh shipmate so wind your neck in

The majority of Poles, Slavs, Rumainians etc are working here to earn a fast buck they share houses with many others without paying any or little taxes and contributions. Because of the removal of the tax burdons they can accept the positions that other British Citizens can not afford to take. This is a false economy that is being proliferated by building sites and other users of predominantly manual workers paid cash in hand.
You don'f find them at Mcdonalds etc as these get paid under paye schemes.
They contibute a big fat zero to the defence budget

You will find it pretty difficult to get a job on a building site without either being registered for tax with the revenue or paying PAYE at emergency code level unless you have a paye coding. As a general rule the opportunities for being paid cash gross are getting less and less, not non existant I would agree. Most of the places I see Poles working are places wher Tax and NI will be collected by the employer.

If they are happy living 10 in a bed to save on rent and coucil tax good luck to them, aren't we all happy Maggies poll tax has gone, or are ypou suggesting it should be brought back?

Peter

Peter firstly the poll tax was a better approriation of dues 10 people generate more rubbish than 2 people, 10 people require more from the community than 2 people. it was however unpopular I can't argue with that.
Under the present government both local and national we are seeing taxes soar for everthing mostly by stealth and imaginative revenue idea's had the poll tax remained I for one think these would have been minimised.

As for cash in hand on building sites I had two jobs working for different construction companies windows and roofing both were paid cash in hand (thanks very much) and were on some lucrative sites in London. Why was this you ask because I could not get any benefits due to my pension but that would not even cover the mortgage so needed extra to live off.

 

[sweeney]

thats all very well Hawkeye, but it doesn't really help me does it?

 

[Hawkeye]

Sweeny if you want bears in Saints square Rotherham go out on a thursday night there are plenty of bare's (Ar**s)

 

[slim]

I agree with Hawkeye on the Poll tax. This was a much fairer way of collecting taxes for local services. We are now back to the system where a couple living in a four bed roomed house which they worked and saved for pay more in council tax than three couples living in a three bedroomed house. The poll tax was a much fairer system.