E-Borders

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#1
I am scratching my head... is this good or is it simply another nail in the coffin of free passage and privacy for the individual? I suspect that, actually... It's not such a great move by the UK Border Agency - something that we should be very sceptical about!

The tracking of your movements in and out of the country, your personal details, method of payment, who you travel with, etc., all stored on a database for ten years...

Don't get me wrong; I've got nothing to hide, and understand the need to police UK borders effectively. But a UK national resident living outside the UK decides to return home and all their details being recorded and checked worries me.

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UK Boarder Agency said:
When will the changes take place?

e-Borders

This page explains our timetable for putting the e-Borders programme into operation.

We will activate e-Borders in stages, to allow time for us to set up the necessary systems for transferring information between the government agencies involved and the vast number of carriers, transport operators, port authorities and individuals. Those who will be affected can be large organisations such as scheduled and charter airlines, ferry and cruise ships, and through-tunnel rail operators. They can also be small or independent carriers for example fishing boats, working shipping vessels, business and cargo charter flights and the individual leisure yachting and private aircraft pilots.

You can find the specific e-Borders requirements for these groups in e-Borders requirements for carriers and ports.

The timetable is:

o 2009: the e-Borders operations centre, the National Border Targeting Centre (NBTC) starts operating, enabling us to create travel histories for passengers;

o December 2009: e-Borders aims to collect details of 60% of all international passengers and crews from a range of carriers and to check that 60% against lists of people who are of interest to authorities;

o December 2010: e-Borders aims to collect details of 95% of passengers and crews;

o April 2011: we start to activate modernised entry methods at our ports;

o July 2012: improvements including an ability to give clearance to passengers who are already on a train;

o March 2014: e-Borders is fully operational, covering all international travellers using all our ports, including matching passengers' arrivals to their departures.
But what effect will it have on 'home-grown' terrorists who were responsible for the one attack that did work and the others that didn't? So what is the next step? Tag every one of us?

This act of total panic and stupidity even more resembles a huge headless chicken running around trying to plug gaps in the dyke with straw and missing all the important bits...

:oops:
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
#2
sgtpepperband said:
This act of total panic and stupidity even more resembles a huge headless chicken running around trying to plug gaps in the dyke with straw and missing all the important bits...

:oops:
Gesture politics of the worst type - be seen to "do something" whether or not the "something" actually solves the problem. A product of spin-driven sound-bite politics, I'm afraid, we no longer look to trying to understand an issue we simply dive in headfirst and try and solve it straight away :(
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#3
But we're a fecking island! It should be easier to protect our borders than a landlocked island...

I don't get how knowing when I'm going abroad, and then coming back, is going to help defeat terrorism. Isn't that what having a passport and passport control all about? Or do passports not work - in which case, why do I have to pay £80 for one?

:? :oops:
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#5
21_Man said:
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:0Jv24ekwHxkJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column+fifth+columnists&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Was that aimed at me or the architects of the proposal?! :?
 
#8
Big Brother strikes again! They already know what our shopping habits are ... we are watched on I don't know how many CCTV cameras within minutes of leaving the front door .... stands to reason we will be tracked around the world.

I was quite interested when I got my passport replaced recently ... back page is an aerial! One of those copper wire thingy's ... presume someone whill know the fancy name for them and I'm damn sure it's not there for when I can't find the passport in the house!

The trouble with Government as against Parliament as those "5 finger shufflers" wouldn't know what to do with data if it stared them in the face ... this is the whitehall mandarins joining in with the European mandarins ammassing data on us .... where is it going to end?
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#9
I think its a good idea. A bunch of people I have worked with (Ex RN, RAF and Army) are working on it at reasonbaly senior levels. From what they have told me and how it will work I think its a good idea.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
#10
sgtpepperband said:
But we're a fecking island! It should be easier to protect our borders than a landlocked island...

I don't get how knowing when I'm going abroad, and then coming back, is going to help defeat terrorism. Isn't that what having a passport and passport control all about? Or do passports not work - in which case, why do I have to pay £80 for one?

:? :oops:
I guess the logic on travel plans is that patterns of suspicious behaviour can be identified (annual family holiday's to the Afghan/Pakistan border) to allow the security services to better focus their enquiries. On the border controls, the current situation is that your passport is only checked on re-entry, there are no exit controls anymore. I imagine another area of concern that this all-singing, all-dancing database will address (potentially) is dual-nationals travelling on two passports for different legs of their journey - currently there's nothing to stop this and I understand, anecdotally, that it really screws with the airlines' collective heads :)

Oh and think yourself lucky that your passport is only £80; for my next renewal, despite living in Canada with the High Commission just down the road, I need to apply via the UK Embassy in Washington and pay the princely sum of $185 + $11 postage - at the current exchange rate my next passport will set me back around £140, a 75% hike over your UK price.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#11
wave_dodger said:
I think its a good idea. A bunch of people I have worked with (Ex RN, RAF and Army) are working on it at reasonbaly senior levels. From what they have told me and how it will work I think its a good idea.
Okay, perhaps the proposal may look good on paper, but the passport control and immigration process at the UK's points of entry are bad enough now; how well will this new plan work in practice? :?
 
#12
Daktari said:
I was quite interested when I got my passport replaced recently ... back page is an aerial! One of those copper wire thingy's ... presume someone whill know the fancy name for them and I'm damn sure it's not there for when I can't find the passport in the house!
Tis a biometric chip.

I don't really get the point of it as the picture and signature are on the main page anyway :?
 

redmonkey

Lantern Swinger
Book Reviewer
#13
Is this going to be another I.T. system that will be run by EDS and screwed up totally with all the collected data left on a train for someone to find. There you have all the details you could ever want about anyone travelling. Name, passport, address, credit card etc.
Seems to me that we are getting more and more under the thumb of the Government. The next idea will probably involve little old ladies reporting the coming and going from your house to the KGB or what ever they get called in this country.
Every one will have to carry a card and those without the special card (Labour party card)will find life so much harder.

Stalin would be proud of this Government
 
#14
And how this will tackle the sleepers already in the UK is anyones guess!

Actually, I go through Customs at least twice every 2 to 3 weeks.
Sometimes by Ferry, sometimes by Eurotunnel on the car train.
I am amazed at the times I am just waved through with no check on my passport at all. Then other times, but only on Eurotunnel, it's the full monty, explosives swipe, sniffer dog, car bonnet up, is this your car, who are you, what do you do for a living, where are you going to and where from.
Makes me laugh when the bonnet is up, there could be anything under the plastic covering the V8. Thank Christ they don't start taking it apart!
I am really of the opinion that it is just a numbers game and what the new system will prove is beyond me other than it will cost us the tax payer a fortune.
 
#15
So what happens to a boat load of sea anglers, that set out for a deep sea wreck from a Southern port. Whilst they are at sea a gale blows up and they have to run to the French coast for shelter. As they didn't take passports and were not clocked out of UK how can they re-enter the country. These proposals again erode any civil rights we have. I am sure that HMG have more than enough information on each and everyone of us, why do they need more? As has already been stated, it is just more info for them to lose!
 

wet_blobby

War Hero
Moderator
#16
I'm so cynical about the UK government I see this as another attempt at stalinist control. What good will it do? The important question I suppose is what will a conservative government do with all the labour party surveillance apparatus once they get into power.
 
#17
sgtpepperband said:
I am scratching my head... is this good or is it simply another nail in the coffin of free passage and privacy for the individual? I suspect that, actually... It's not such a great move by the UK Border Agency - something that we should be very sceptical about!

The tracking of your movements in and out of the country, your personal details, method of payment, who you travel with, etc., all stored on a database for ten years...

Don't get me wrong; I've got nothing to hide, and understand the need to police UK borders effectively. But a UK national resident living outside the UK decides to return home and all their details being recorded and checked worries me.

Worries me as well, I do live outside UK. I get enough bone questions posed as it is. Like:

How long will you be staying in England Sir?
Me: As long as I like. I'm a British citizen or do I have to leave by a certain date?

Anwser: No Sir you can stay as long as you like.

Me: That's what I just said.
 
#19
wave_dodger said:
I think its a good idea. A bunch of people I have worked with (Ex RN, RAF and Army) are working on it at reasonbaly senior levels. From what they have told me and how it will work I think its a good idea.
WD You say that it is a good idea but don't say why.What is it you have been told about the government trying to spy on all the comings and goings of lawfull travellers that is so appealing.
 
#20
Came back from Tenerife last month. Arriving at Liverpool airport. I said to the Mrs bet we get pulled by customs. Why she says? Because we came through in December. Sure enough bee line straight to us. Come this way. Nowt on us but it seems to them your either a smuggler or whatever if you go abroad regular.Oh and i was not wearing sandals. :lol:
 

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