Drink Driving on HMNB PORTSMOUTH

Blythdave

Newbie
SWIM got caught drink driving by the MOD last night on HMNB PORTSMOUTH dockyard, no excuses SWIM deserves all the punishment SWIM gets, just wondering if anyone knows of cases like this before and what form of punishment is received? It will be a SWIMS first offence and I’m led to believe you are covered by certain bylaws? talks of it going to civilian court as it is a MOD matter.

Under the bylaws it states a fine as ultimate punishment, any information on the matter will be well appreciated, I understand this will effect some on which I apologise on behalf of swims actions

Kind regards SWIM
 

Wightsparker

War Hero
SWIM got caught drink driving by the MOD last night on HMNB PORTSMOUTH dockyard, no excuses SWIM deserves all the punishment SWIM gets, just wondering if anyone knows of cases like this before and what form of punishment is received? It will be a SWIMS first offence and I’m led to believe you are covered by certain bylaws? talks of it going to civilian court as it is a MOD matter.

Under the bylaws it states a fine as ultimate punishment, any information on the matter will be well appreciated, I understand this will effect some on which I apologise on behalf of swims actions

Kind regards SWIM

I would expect to see a driving ban, a fine and costs imposed by Portsmouth Magistrates Court. A senior naval officer stopped at Unicorn Gate by MDP received precisely that in 2009. Having said that, I would recommend taking legal advice rather than rely on helpful (or otherwise) posters on this site.
 

digger84

War Hero
I was led to believe that the Dockyard is classed as Private Land. I have heard of people caught before and given a fine as they were not breathalysed, but were declared drunk by a Doctor in Nelson.
 

huwshpis

War Hero
This is an interesting one. Without knowing to what extent Pompey dockyard has ben privatised, I cannot offer a definitive answer, but if the road fits the definition in the Road Traffic Act - "road or other public place", it's a civvy crime, mandatory minimum 12-month ban, big fine (gaol if it's bad enough), surcharge and costs.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
I have breath tested someone driving on one the Portland Port roads when it was MoD, the public had general access and it went through the courts with no problems.
 

huwshpis

War Hero
I have breath tested someone driving on one the Portland Port roads when it was MoD, the public had general access and it went through the courts with no problems.
Exactly the point I was making in post no.4. The offence is committed on a "road or other public place", the question then is whether a road in Portsmouth Dockyard, possibly on private land, is an "other public place" for the purposes of the Act.
 

Wightsparker

War Hero
Exactly the point I was making in post no.4. The offence is committed on a "road or other public place", the question then is whether a road in Portsmouth Dockyard, possibly on private land, is an "other public place" for the purposes of the Act.

Indeed, an interesting point. As mentioned at post #2, the senior naval officer concerned was apparently stopped at the Unicorn Gate, to which the public might be considered to have access before being issued with/denied a pass.

The case was dealt with at Portsmouth Magistrates Court. He did plead guilty.
 

Sumo

War Hero
Looking on the bright side of this, they stopped you before you killed yourself or worse someone else. If you can't handle the time don't do the crime. Were you heading for the open road?
 

Blythdave

Newbie
After some extensive reasearch and a phone call of a military specialised solicitor, it is not a charge under the road safety act but from a bylaw of the Portsmouth dockyard stating the maximum punishment will be a fine in excess of £500, the offence was committed on north west wall and is technically private property thanks for your assistance
 

Sumo

War Hero
After some extensive reasearch and a phone call of a military specialised solicitor, it is not a charge under the road safety act but from a bylaw of the Portsmouth dockyard stating the maximum punishment will be a fine in excess of £500
If that's the case Kin lucky? do the pusser still do consequential punishment?
 

Taztiff

War Hero
Exactly the point I was making in post no.4. The offence is committed on a "road or other public place", the question then is whether a road in Portsmouth Dockyard, possibly on private land, is an "other public place" for the purposes of the Act.
I seem to remember Guzz dockyard using a comment from this act to ensure that all privates vehicles had MOT and Insurance. Possibly due to the fact that commercial vehicles also had access to the dockyard?

Then again, the joss on one ship I was on in the 80's drove through the dockyard absolutely smashed one night. MOD plod caught him and sent him back onboard without his car - no charges. And he was seen doing 50 over one of the dock cassoons - hit the ramp and launched into the air before coming to a stop.
Allegedly....
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
It used to be, or so I always told,, that your car insurance was invalid in the dockyard as it was MoD land and normal rules never applied. If true it must have changed as some areas of the yard in Guzz (South yard particularly) had private companies working there. Walker Wingsail had a big chunk of it at one time.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
I do like a controversial topic laced with intrigue. Nevertheless, the following is completely genuine:

I know of a person in my Division that got breathalysed at Unicorn Gate about to exit HMNB Pompey in February 2001. He was arrested by civil police, taken to the station, failed the intoximeter, went to court, fined, banned 12 months.

The individual was approached by Warner Goodman & Streat Solicitors, barrister: David Lancaster. This was the guy that got the WRNS compensated for being discharged pregnant & homosexuals compensated for being kicked-out. CNJA hated this solicitor, made it public knowledge & later got him in a sting and had him struck off & imprisoned, funny old thing.

Anyway, it went to appeal through Pompey Crown Court and the judge was none other than Judge Andrew Chubb - he quashed the charge gave the MoD Plod a good slap for acting beyond their jurisdiction...and not supplying any witnesses. David Lancaster used a previous test case to define what is & isn't private public land based around the Dover car ferry access roads, on which the Police cannot prosecute motoring offences (apparently). The Dockyard is not public land, it turns out, but MoD Plod tried to argue it was because the public were granted access on Navy Days and vehicular access whenever a car made a wrong turning & was permitted to enter to turn around (usually cars towing caravans coming off or on the Channel ferries by Trafalgar Gate).

The MoD Police argument was rejected - the counter-argument was that a pub carpark was public when the pub was open, but private once the pub was closed for business.

Judge Chubb died six months later in a mysterious garage fire soon after telling his wife he was leaving her. (The garage was demolished before a forensic examination could be undertaken).

The Commodore that was subsequently tried & convicted for drink drive in the Naval Base did so because he offered no defence & basically declared himself guilty.

My tip? Not that I would ever condone or encourage drink drive, but equally - seek qualified legal advice, you may well find the precedence has already been set.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
Just as a matter of interest, I seem to remember that Mod Plod powers were increased to extend them beyond the various bases, because it was a long time ago that it happened and my memory isn't what it was, I can't remember the actual radius that it was extended too.
 

Sumo

War Hero
Just as a matter of interest, I seem to remember that Mod Plod powers were increased to extend them beyond the various bases, because it was a long time ago that it happened and my memory isn't what it was, I can't remember the actual radius that it was extended too.
I think it was things like the minors strike and civil unrest, which increased their powers beyond the gates, but if only for specific reasons I have no idea?
 

slim

War Hero
MOD PLODs carry the same warrant card as the civil police so have the same powers.
As do Transport Police officers.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Yep, had a brief scan through that (so probably missed loads)- I think their area of jurisdiction extends beyond the boundaries of the Naval Base but the issue was where Civil Law can or cannot be applied on non-public property.

For example, it is (or was in 2001) only illegal to drive whilst pissed on a public highway. On private property, you can please yourself. Unless of course, the law has changed since 2001 in this respect. I'm not sure, for example, whether they can endorse your driving licence & fine you through the civil courts for speeding in the dockyard, but they can definitely bar you from driving in the dockyard. & bar your vehicle from entry into the dockyard.

MOD PLODs carry the same warrant card as the civil police so have the same powers.
As do Transport Police officers.
Again, it depends whether it is actually an offence at that location - as the MoDPlod found out.
 
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