Does the RN need the RNR?

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by Pierre_Argh, Aug 18, 2006.

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  1. Yes, of course, we could not manage without them

  2. Yes, but changed from the way it is today

    0 vote(s)
  3. No, a waste of money and valuable training time

    0 vote(s)
  1. Does the RN need the RNR? I'm sure there will be many "rationers" who will be incensed at such a question... and quote examples of invlaubale service reservists have provided?

    However ISTM the regulars are, generally, slow to call of the RNR. Whether this is mental block is a hangover from pre-RFA96 days when reserves could only be used to defend the UK... or just the old "can-do" attitude prevailing and precluding a call for "help" when that might be seen as admitting failure (when all around are getting on with it!)

    The legacy of this seems to be that the RNR is constantly fighting for its existence, and having to justify training that is seen as a burden rather than an investment.

    (Example: Just after GWII, I was visiting my parent air-station, and asked how the last few months had been? "Bloody difficult, we just didn't have enough people" was, in effect, the reply. When I asked, "then why didn't you recall some of your reserves" all i got was blank expression)

    I sincerely believe there is a place for the RNR (as I know many also do)... but unless a more realistic attitude is taken to providing training, and utilising reserves more... then the funding the RNR may always be considered as akin to running an expensive yacht/flying club?
  2. I think the RN is now starting to make better use of RNR personnel. Volunteers have recently been called up for Afganistan for instance - not possible pre RFA96 so perhaps the hangover you mention is subsiding now.

    Also with the RNR and RN becoming more seamless (at least that's the plan) its importance will increase. I hear that sooner or later the RN will have a full time and part time service and you will be able to switch between the two. Sounds a sensible idea to me.
  3. Having just had the email through showing what RNR are where in support of highbrow, I'd suggest you're talking out of your arrse.
  4. Hardly the RNR's fault! You don't call up reservists by simply hoping they will turn up one morning.

    Would be interesting to know:
    1) did they ask.
    2) if they did ask, what reasons where given for it not happening.
  5. I think with the advent of GSSR and RNR FPTs, the RNR DOES have a lot to offer the RN. But it needs a few things:

    1. For the RN guys to give us a little more respect and trust us to do the job.
    2. More opportunities to show we can do the job
    3. For the RN hierarchy to put a stake in the ground as to what they do actually want us to do.

    After that it should be plain sailing. The TA seems to be wel integrated into the Army now, so no reason why the Senior Service can't show them how it's done.
  6. After reading how its changed I agree that the RN does need the RNR. I also think it needs the RNXS back (subtle hint!) for those of us too disabled or too old :)oops:) to go RNR! The RNXS could do all the unglamourous, routine, backroom jobs that the heros aren't interested in. You lot can get the credit & the decorations, we could get the comradeship and re-association with the RN back again - and make use of those skills we were taught that we've never been able to test out! The Danish Naval Home Guard take oldsters like us - why not the RNR - for the unglamourous jobs. You could call it the RNR Senior Citizens Squadron!

  7. Always a Civvy says
    ... or ROR (i.e. Retired Officer Reserve? Why did they never have Retired Rating posts... perhaps now covered by MSF, but I digress.

    GCYZ... sorry if I inferred it was the RNR's fault... I meant that it hadn't even crossed the functional managers mind to recall his RNRs

    I agree things are changing, but as another has said until we (the RNR & RN) educate regulars, there is IMHO a danger the RNR will always be seen as a burden... unless that it, they can all of a sudden find a job that no-else wants/is available to do!

    Jim30... I said someone would standup and quote a case of "mass-employment" of RNRs... If I am TOOMA I apologise, but ISTM that whatever situation you quote, it still only used a very small precentage of the available force; and until there is cause for a major mobilisation the RNR will be seen by some as pointless. maybe that's the burden we just have to bear?
  8. Well I keep hearing rumours that clean-ship is a job that nobody else likes doing - perhaps... After all with the RNR scrubbing decks the matelots could substitute Matelot Routine for Stoker Routine (ie. sunbathing in suitable weather)! :lol:

    On the other hand, this might be a good posting for us ex-RNXS types - civvies with a continued desire to serve but medically unfit! :roll:
  9. Jim30,

    So where do you think that the RNR could have been employed in Op Highbrow? Given the no notice nature of the Op I was pleased to see that the RNR had a look in at all.
  10. Exactly - we had a significant response in critical areas - some well known, others not really for open discussion in hours not days. The RN got the billets manned that it needed with no bother and continues to have them manned. Highbrow is the perfect demonstration of the versatility of the RNR today.
  11. Precisely. This is of course where the Reserves and Auxiliary forces are so useful and in a War Emergency so essential. The latter is particularly crucial. It is all very well assuming in war planning that any future conflict will involve a major conflagration that will rapidly go nuclear, but as events such as Iraq have demonstrated such assumptions cannot be relied upon, nor frankly could they be relied upon even during the Cold War itself. In a crisis situation you need a reserve of trained, proficient (ie experienced) personnel able to assist and replenish the Forces as and when the need arises. Relying on being able to train people in an emergency is simply not on, not least because early on one may experience high casualities and may lose a valuable well of experience. Also, as the current situation in Iraq has demonstrated, without the Reserve forces, including the RNR, Britain's ability to project force would be severely limited. What is unfortunate is too much short-sightedness in the past decade or so, following the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, which was seen more as an opportunity for cost-cutting rather than consolidation and rationalisation where needed, based upon a comprehensive review of potential risks and continuing foci of conflict.

    As a civvy I certainly appreciate the work you people are doing, though it is unfortunate that this view is probably not more widely shared by an often, seemingly, apathetic public.

  12. I reckon a few of you blowing the RNR trumpet need a bit of a wake-up call!! There is so much I would like to reply to, however for starters....

    1. Funding is tight everywhere within the MoD therefore training for reserve forces will never be the No 1 priority, no matter how much you feel you need it.

    2. Training for the reserve forces generally prevents regulars from seeing their families during a weekend off, or are you suggesting that this should be the case?

    3. Members of the RNR employed in a full time (FTRS) capacity are certainly of the opinion that the RN operates between 0800 - 1600 and that everything can wait until tomorrow morning. All very quick to start shouting about their contracts. Their professionalism and committment is therefore called into question.

    4. Early RNR involvement in Op Highbrow was minimal. If the RNR cannot be called up and expected at work the following day, then they are not much use at all for short notice / immediate response operations.

    5. There is obviously a requirement for the RNR, however, I suggest that the mindset of the RNR needs to be altered with expectations lowered as to what the RN will require from you. GSSR etc is a good idea, however if your training is not up to spec then you cannot expect to be sat around the table negotiating the solution to the middle-east problem.
  13. Agree with most of what you say, but I cannot see many in the RN being sat around a table negotiating middle east peace either :)
  14. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Agreed, but it would be nicer to be above the SCC occasionally!

    So its alright for the regulars to insist on their weekend off, but when an RNR starts looking at T&Cs...

    Both the RN and the RNR need to consider each other's viewpoint; the RNR require training to be useful which I'm afraid will mean weekends are affected. Similarly, the FTRS needs to recognise that a degree of flexibility is required and military operations are not conducted solely between 0800-1600 (XMT Wednesday pm sports make & mend, Monday am and Frday pm WE travelling!).

    I can't comment on the specifics of Op Highbrow, however is such immediate readiness what is required by the RN. The role of the RNR in recent years has become unclear - when I first joined the RNR many moons ago, I knew exactly what my war role was and what was expected in terms of mobilisation time. Today, I haven't a clue (and no, this is not due to the onset of SR senility!).

    I think the mindset of the RN needs to be altered too - stop degrading the standards expected from the RNR = give us a challenge and let us meet it! The RNR has some extremely capable people who have more flexibility than you might think - after all many of us manage to juggle a full-time career in a wholly different area of expertise, a family life as well as the RNR. We're quite adaptable and can also "think outside the box" by drawing on our civvy backgrounds.... if you'll let us!

    Let's cut the "us and them" crap, recognise that we need each other and work as a single service in sorting out how best to take the naval service forward.
  15. We have the experience and people with the necessary qualifications to undertake a great deal of own training so you dont have to use lose your weekends off however there has always been reluctance for lead schools to allow the use of their facilities without a suitable instructor in place despite this...obviously sea weekends are another issue..!!

    What is the RN worried about that we might break something..please!!!
  16. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Hmm, at Colingrad its not the RN that call the shots but Flag$hip Training.
  17. True but...Raleigh..Seamanship school..Jupiter point..AJAX barge..!!!.

    Ive heard that as far as GSSR is concerned it could take up to 2 years for the lead schools to come up with a suitable training package...2 YEARS!!!!.
  18. I can believe it! It takes some people so long to absorb simple training!!!!!!
  19. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    That's not a two year long training package, but that's the lead time for the production of the package by the lead school. That means for the next two years (at least) the RNR will continue in limbo, not being trained according to the RN requirements and therefore not being allowed to do the job! CIS threatens to take longer :(
  20. Aggree completely. When MW training took place at Dryad the RNR where on the key list for Coniston Building. We opened up Sat and Sun, conducted training as required, even cleaned ship on sunday PM. Now at Collingwood we need a babysitter, who comes in and gets on with his own thing, does not contribute (or is required to ) to training. (Those involved are happy to volunteer as it takes them off the weekend duty roster.)

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