Documentary Afghan The Soviet Experience

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by scouse, Jun 21, 2008.

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  1. Did any one see the Above Documentary? All the troops tanks and airpower but to no avial. sense of Deja Vu? One of the soldiers said " We are only occupants, this is their Country they can sort it out for themselves. Our prescence here can be considered a mistake. Their is nothing good i can say about Afghanistan. Ive been here for 2 years and still dont understand a thing about the Afghans"
     
  2. I do believe there is a world of difference between the situation the Russians found themselves in and our current one, the Afghans nearly to a man did not want the Russians in their country, that cannot be said about the NATO Forces.
     
  3. fair comment, but i was thinking more about an unwinnable war. Like the Russians found out
     
  4. If you can get a copy of The Ninth Company,its a true story about a Soviet unit in afghanistan.A sort of soviet Full Metal Jacket.
     
  5. cheers on the torrent now :thumright:
     
  6. In the conventional sense I agree I do not think it is winnable for either side.
     
  7. Watched the Film Rota the Ninth Company. Very poignant. Is it right what the Senior Russian officer said "Afghanistan has never been conquered? :salut:
     
  8. If my father was still alive to advise, having been a serving soldier on the North West Frontier at the outbreak of WW2, he would have said that nothing will ever happen on the Afghan border without the say-so of the tribal warlords.

    I have always hated the saying, but in this case it is very apposite, that the only thing we learn from experience(history) is that we learn nothing from experience(history).

    Instead of chucking money and lives away in the pursuit of a system of government that a. the people don't really want and b. allows those put in positions of influence to just line their own pockets, we should surely be looking at ways to defuse the basic problems?

    Why on earth should the Afghan people be reassured that democracy is such a good thing, when evidence abounds that the ruling elites in the West are just as guilty of having their noses in the trough as their own licenced bandits in government?
     
  9. Essentially a fair assessment, although individual city states within what we now know as Afghanistan have been at different times. Lawrence James book titled Raj and Peter Hopkirk, The Great Game, are both pretty good expositions of recent (circa 300 years) of various comings and goings in that area.

    Britain has managed to occupy Kabul and exercise some control on two occasions, although both times have ended up being evicted with significant loss of life. Various reasons for that on both occasions, but essentially loss of popular support for the presence.

    Post partition of British India the only succesful domination of the country has been by the Taliban, and that was only through subjugation of many facets of Afghan culture.
     
  10. thanks for the link :thumright: Just an observation from me with my aircrewman head on. The might of those Mi 35 Hinds 128x57 mm rockets 4 barrell gatling machine gun and 4 stingers in one strike. They couldnt make any impact in Afghanistan. Its going to be hard for us with the helos that we have at our disposal :salut:
     
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  12. The big difference and the reason we should leave as soon as possible is that one side is playing "AT HOME" the other side has a home to go to.

    Guess who will crack first. Me thinks the home side are a certainty.

    Nutty
     
  13. We are fighting in Afghanistan to do three things.
    1. Enforce our version of democracy on the people.
    2. Deny funds to the Taliban.
    3. Stop the drug production.

    We are achieving none of the above.

    1. So how about withdrawing our forces.
    2. Tightening the Borders and effectively stop the export of narcotics.
    3. Destroy the poppy fields using chemicals.
    4. Supply the farmers with seed to grow a crop that the West can use and purchase it from them at market rates.

    This just may achieve what wars in Afghanistan have been unable to.
     
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  15. Scouse - True what the intellegence rupert was telling his new intake. Back through history no one including Alexander the Great has ever defeated these people. I think Rudyard Kipling summed it up in one verse of a poem about the British in Afghanistan the first time around ( we got beat BTW).

    When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.

    The 9th Company was excellent. Another great movie is 'The Beast' about a Soviet tank crew lost in the mountains and valleys after losing radio communication with their division.

    Red Sailor
     
  16. Hell it's far better than metal jacket and quite simply one of the best war movies I've ever seen.
    The battle scenes frightened the crap out of me,so realistic.
    got it recorded on disc just watched it again and it's a helluva film and true.
    We got no chance against those in the mountains,if we kill them all a load more will come over from other lands.
    I'm very right wing in most things but this is not the way forward here,not when other countries will not pull any weight.
    Brown said today that Germany may give some helos and France are sending troops so the USA marines can go south and engage the Tallies.
    Says it all really time to come home and buy the poppies from them.
     
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  18. With ref to "4", why doesn't the West get them to grow crops used in either Biomass fuel production or some grain variant. With the price of food shooting up due to land being converted for Biomass fuel production instead of for food it must be winner for them.

    Crikey, I've just given a sensible idea and haven't charged exorbitant fees as a consultant. Damn, another opportunity missed.
     
  19. The majority of increase in food costs is down to increased cost for transportation of both raw materials and the products whilst in the supply chain. Some of the increase is down to straightforward interruptions in supply.

    With respect to growing biomass fuel inputs, it's worth thinking about the cost, and fuel consumption, in then getting that input to somewhere it could be used, so the actual value of production in Afghanistan would be minimised.

    Personally I'd open up the Afghan market, the opium poppy has a number of legitimate industrial uses, predominantly in the pharmaceutical world. That has the potential to increase revenue to the farmers, as well as reduce the need to grow the stuff elsewhere, such as Southern England, where it needs quite a lot of artificial support.

    :D
     

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