Do things ever change?

Wrecker a few ''rankers '' did go to the sharp end however their
observations and comments were overlooked due to the GHQ attitude
at the time

They hoped the Germans would eventually run out of machine gun
ammunition during mass attacks ----it never happened and and mass attacks turned into massacres

Really was a disgusting waste of manpower ----and like they say the buck stops at the top.


G :fish:
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
Greenie said:
Wrecker a few ''rankers '' did go to the sharp end however their
observations and comments were overlooked due to the GHQ attitude
at the time

They hoped the Germans would eventually run out of machine gun
ammunition during mass attacks ----it never happened and and mass attacks turned into massacres

Really was a disgusting waste of manpower ----and like they say the buck stops at the top.


G :fish:

And don't forget most of the casualties (all armies) were caused by artillery. Not sure where you get the info on them hoping the Germans ran out of ammo from though?
 
Machine gun ammunition --my own input :D :D :D

Did a previous post on shelling and frontal attacks
They eventually devised a creeping barrage of artillery shelling for advancing troops prior to then the method was to stop the artillery about three minutes prior to the assault troops advancing
Enough time for the deeply entrenched Germans to set up and man their
defences again-------


G :fish:
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
"Wrecker a few ''rankers '' did go to the sharp end however their
observations and comments were overlooked due to the GHQ attitude
at the time"

Total nonsense - one thing that has emerged is just how regularly senior staff of Col level and above were in the front lines meeting units. The reason the perception that they never went there exists is because with so many men, and so many units present, the chances of many lower ranking personnel meeting these staff were quite slim. Read Richard holmes or Gary Sheffield to get a good idea of how often the seniors were in the front line, and more importantly, how tacticaly innovative they actually were.

Final point - the role of a staff corps is to direct the movements and efforts of 30,000 plus men at a time. If they are in the front line they are not doing their job of directing the strategic effort.
 

AngryMonkey

Lantern Swinger
Greenie said:
Machine gun ammunition --my own input :D :D :D
They eventually devised a creeping barrage of artillery shelling for advancing troops prior to then the method was to stop the artillery about three minutes prior to the assault troops advancing
Enough time for the deeply entrenched Germans to set up and man their
defences again-------
G :fish:
As has been discussed in previous posts tactics like the creeping barrage where developed as the massively expanded Imperial armies gained experience and so were able to carry out complicated co-ordinated assualts of that fashion. Unfortunately said experience is gained via a fairly steep learning curve. In regards to strategic offensives on the Western Front there were no flanking possiblities and so frontal assualts were the only ones available. The fact that HQ-front line comms were normally cut by immediate German counter-artillery bombardments also meant that it would take hours for word to trickle back and forth making battlefield command nigh on impossible.
 
However much we chat about this record versus that record and whether or not the senior staffers were worth their salt, nothing can change the feeling of utter sadness when you visit a Great War cemetery and see the number of your forebears who died at such a young age. When I visited Tyne Cot, Irish Farm, Passchendaele and others, I never found anyone over 39 and the vast majority were less than 20. Impressive as those monuments are, the cost of the Great War can never be justified.
 

AngryMonkey

Lantern Swinger
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
However much we chat about this record versus that record and whether or not the senior staffers were worth their salt, nothing can change the feeling of utter sadness when you visit a Great War cemetery and see the number of your forebears who died at such a young age. When I visited Tyne Cot, Irish Farm, Passchendaele and others, I never found anyone over 39 and the vast majority were less than 20. Impressive as those monuments are, the cost of the Great War can never be justified.
The saddest thing about the First World War was that they didn't finish the job and as a result another 500,000+ British men and women died 20 years later. Unfortunately I believe the war was always going to happen as Germany under Kaiser Wilhelm II was determined to dominate the European continent and would have found another excuse had Archduke Ferdinand not been assassinated. It says it all that in 1914 we were allied with the French and through them allied to Russia when we had spent most of the C19th preparing to kick shite out of both of them. That said it in no way undermines the horrifying experiences and sacrifices that those men suffered and I for one was a bit disappointed when we didn't have a state funeral for the last veteran when he died last year as it would have been a fitting tribute to his whole generation.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
AngryMonkey said:
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
However much we chat about this record versus that record and whether or not the senior staffers were worth their salt, nothing can change the feeling of utter sadness when you visit a Great War cemetery and see the number of your forebears who died at such a young age. When I visited Tyne Cot, Irish Farm, Passchendaele and others, I never found anyone over 39 and the vast majority were less than 20. Impressive as those monuments are, the cost of the Great War can never be justified.
The saddest thing about the First World War was that they didn't finish the job and as a result another 500,000+ British men and women died 20 years later. Unfortunately I believe the war was always going to happen as Germany under Kaiser Wilhelm II was determined to dominate the European continent and would have found another excuse had Archduke Ferdinand not been assassinated. It says it all that in 1914 we were allied with the French and through them allied to Russia when we had spent most of the C19th preparing to kick shite out of both of them. That said it in no way undermines the horrifying experiences and sacrifices that those men suffered and I for one was a bit disappointed when we didn't have a state funeral for the last veteran when he died last year as it would have been a fitting tribute to his whole generation.

Harry Patch was totally anti-war (read his bio The Last Tommy if you haven't already) and wanted a quiet send off.
 

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