Discipline in the RN

#1
Thought this might be a topic for info, esp for all those wanting to join the RN or are about to.

Different forms of discipline in the RN; I, myself, cannot actaully comment, I was a good lass (actually, never got caught, apart from once).

Whilst on my OM2's course in HMS Dryad, a few of us lasses were caught breaking into a lad's mess, with a fire hose, marker pens and any foods that could make a mess, destorying they guy's mess. As punishment, we had to repaint the mess, no biggy.

However, there are 2 main sets of punishments in the RN, Number 9's and CO's punishment, there is another name for this I think.

So, anyone out there want to explain a little more as to what these are for our next RN generation?
 
#2
I can quote Summary Punishments from BR11 Chapter 9 if it helps:

Dismissal from Her Majesty's Service [No 2]
Detention for a period not exceeding three months [No 3]
Disrating [No 4] (Royal Marines: reduction to the ranks or any less reduction in rank)
Fine [No 4A]
Severe reprimand [No 4B]
Reprimand [No 4C]
Stoppages (recovery, by deductions from an offender's pay of a specified sum by way of compensation for any expense, personal injury, loss or damage occasioned by the offence) [No 4D]
Reduction to the second class for conduct [No 5]
Deprivation of Good Conduct Badges (Good Service Badges) and the Long Service and Good Conduct Medal [No 7]
Extra work and drill for a period not exceeding 14 days [No 9]
Stoppage of leave for a period not exceeding 30 days [No 10]
Forfeiture of pay for improper absence [No 11]
Extra work or drill for not more than two hours a day for a period not exceeding 7 days [No 14]
Admonition [No 15]
Warrant punishments in addition to these will depend on the seriousness of the offence and whether the offender is a Warrant Officer.

However, I don't know whether these will be amended as a result of the Armed Forces Discipline Act. Sgt Pepperband?

Edited to add: I don't know about the missing numbers (1, 6, 8, 12, 13) - perhaps punishments that are no longer appropriate nowadays? (Hanging, Flogging, Keelhauling, Running the Gauntlet etc)
 
#3
I believe No. 1 was death. No idea what the others were. I do miss the old Naval Discipline Act. Up until 1985 members of the RAN were the only Australian citizens who could, in theory be sentenced to death. Then along came the DFDA ... Boring!

As I recall COs punishment was whatever unofficial 'punishment' he decided to give you. You saw the CO as a requestman rather than a defaulter and there was no official paperwork or anything on your record.

Number 9s was stoppage of leave and two hours extra work or drill in the Dogs, along with mustering in the rig of the day at certain times. Maximum allowed was 14 days.
 
#4
Jack77 said:
I believe No. 1 was death. No idea what the others were. I do miss the old Naval Discipline Act. Up until 1985 members of the RAN were the only Australian citizens who could, in theory be sentenced to death. Then along came the DFDA ... Boring!
Likewise the RN. In fact, I think the death penalty only disappeared from the Articles of War a few years ago (2000?). Until then, I think hanging was the maximum penalty for mutiny, treason, wilful destruction of dockyard buildings and desertion in the face of the enemy. There may have been another one, but I'm getting old and my memory is going . . . :scratch:
 
#9
TattooDog said:
Jack77 said:
I believe No. 1 was death. No idea what the others were. I do miss the old Naval Discipline Act. Up until 1985 members of the RAN were the only Australian citizens who could, in theory be sentenced to death. Then along came the DFDA ... Boring!
Likewise the RN. In fact, I think the death penalty only disappeared from the Articles of War a few years ago (2000?). Until then, I think hanging was the maximum penalty for mutiny, treason, wilful destruction of dockyard buildings and desertion in the face of the enemy. There may have been another one, but I'm getting old and my memory is going . . . :scratch:
The damage to HM dockyards was committing Arson---- obviously brought in when we had wooden ships!!


:nemo: :nemo:
 

Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#11
Hoist away! Hanging for sodomy as well.

I heard a dit once about some poor sailor at the table, CO says 'death', Coxswain: 'Deathoncapsleftturnquickmarchwaitoutsidemyoffice'. Anyone with more detail on that?
 
#12
Seaweed said:
Hoist away! Hanging for sodomy as well.

I heard a dit once about some poor sailor at the table, CO says 'death', Coxswain: 'Deathoncapsleftturnquickmarchwaitoutsidemyoffice'. Anyone with more detail on that?

There was a Jossman called Death ---but he wrote his name D' ath




:nemo: :nemo:
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#13
Just in case serving (and, if you're interested, non-serving) personnel did not know, every Accused person now has the right to trial by Cours-Martial; regardless of the seriousness of the alleged offence.
 
#14
sgtpepperband said:
every Accused person now has the right to trial by Cours-Martial; regardless of the seriousness of the alleged offence.
Out of interest Sgt pb, do many take up that option for minor offences? I reckon it would keep the Court Martial cells pretty busy, especially if they're now doing summary appeals.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#15
TattooDog said:
sgtpepperband said:
every Accused person now has the right to trial by Cours-Martial; regardless of the seriousness of the alleged offence.
Out of interest Sgt pb, do many take up that option for minor offences? I reckon it would keep the Court Martial cells pretty busy, especially if they're now doing summary appeals.
I do not have the figures yet (as this right was only introduced into te RN on 4 Jun 07), but the CMMC still have the option to return the case back to the Ship for Summary Trial by 1L/XO/CO. And for information, the Court-Martial Management Cell and the Summary Appeals Court are two separate departments.
 
#16
sgtpepperband said:
I do not have the figures yet (as this right was only introduced into te RN on 4 Jun 07), but the CMMC still have the option to return the case back to the Ship for Summary Trial by 1L/XO/CO. And for information, the Court-Martial Management Cell and the Summary Appeals Court are two separate departments.
Ah, OK, thanks for that.

I had nightmares of every man and his dog requesting CM for the most trivial offences!! :confused:
 
#18
Hanging for mutiny was still on the books in the 70s - remember the press making a big deal about that during the "Iveston mutiny" during that time. Files are in the National Archive under ADM 330, and make interesting reading - or they were to me.
 

Guns

War Hero
Moderator
#19
It's all academic anyway as you never go to table unless they are guilty, just wastes everyones time.

Only once have I seen someone (and I've seen a few tables) plead Not Guilty. The rage that flowed from the Jossmans mouth of "Standoveroncaprightturnquickmarch.... Sir a word" was a joy to behold. Found guilty obviously.
 

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