'Direct Disobedience' result.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by BreathingOutOnTheWayUp, Jul 5, 2011.

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  1. << ...A Royal Navy medic has been sentenced to seven months' detention after refusing to undergo rifle training...

    Leading Medical Assistant Michael Lyons, 25, of Plymouth, said he had a "moral objection" to bearing arms and the war in Afghanistan.

    He was found guilty of disobeying a lawful order, at a court martial...

    Lyons, who had been based at HMS Drake in Plymouth, was also demoted to the rank of able seaman and dismissed from the service...>>

    BBC News - Navy Afghan war objector Michael Lyons detained

    IMHO anything less would have been a genuine case for loading up the outrage bus.
  2. Concur......
  3. I have no argument with the sentence but fear that he may become the hero of those who would rather no wars were ever fought for whatever reason.
    Tomorrows headline:- Naval Conscientious Objector Jailed for refusing to go to Afghanistan
  4. He has paid the price for his moral objections, justice has been done and been seen to be done.
  5. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    How can you have this type of moral objection once the shilling is taken? Are you saying that all service personnel should be allowed to pick which wars they will fight?

    In my opinion he should be required to return any pay received since joining. No doubt he would have been happy to keep serving as long as it didn't involve war zones.
  6. IMO, for what it's worth, he got what he deserved. I was always told I was a serviceman first and foremost, my branch was incidental.

    But I can see the liberal press and tree hugger groups rubbing their hands with glee.

    Any takers on someone like Cherie Bliar jumping in with an appeal, no fees obviously!!
  7. To be fair on the fat scab lifter, I'm pretty sure running around with a rifle in Afghanistan wasn't in the brochure for the Submarine Service. Still, I'm sure none of us ever complained when they made us wash plates in DHP for months at a time.

    Suck it up fatty, don't go near the Scottish Pongos in the showers at Colchester.
  8. It wasn't, neither was laying waste to a third world country and fragging kids for no reason other than shits and gongs. As far as I was aware the RN told me I was going to be part of Betty's own baby rescuing IRA punching world police, not God's crusading bastard squad.
  9. Halleluiah, praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
    Do you have a sprinkling of sympathy for the Codeine Kid then MLP?
  10. I do a little bit, yes. I'm not defending him, but a part of me does see why. Rather than type it out again, here's my reasoning from an earlier thread:

    • Like Like x 2
  11. MLP, I understand where you are coming from, I also understand those who have serious misgivings but have not spoken out, it does not make them a lesser man.
  12. I honestly don't give a shit whether he refused or not, if thats the way he thinks good on him. Takes balls to refuse.
    Unless he is a coward, then rot his festering eyes.
    I'm a bit concerned about this Queens shilling you lot are on about, I never got one, where is it?
  13. I think his argument is fundamentally flawed. Amongst his claims, he says he disagrees with the political motivation for British Forces in Afghanistan, which is, quite simply, nothing to do with his morals or ethics. If he realised he did not want to do the bidding of our masters, he should have put his notice in. He didn't display 'minerals', but naivety, if he wanted to follow his conscience, then the people to talk to would have been his DO, his Div SR, or a chaplain. His DO and Div SR might not have been receptive, I'll grant, but I have yet to meet a chaplain who wouldn't have been able to help him. The worst person to see about this, and the worst time, would be a WO1 GI on the range.
  14. He disobeyed a direct order, which is why he's in the shit, had he done things by the book, ie. request to see his DO..CO etc etc, then he would have been able to sort the situation out. So he was either naive or wanted to make a cnut of himself.
    I agree with his views on the Afghan situation, 2 months after I left the mob, they tried to recall me to go to GW2, I'd just started my own company, I couldn't even get life insurance to cover my mortgage from anyone, (Bomb disposal diver going to war ?? no fecking chance), even PAX refused to take me. I told the desk officer that I wouldn't be interested in going, he quoted the 1974 Reserve Armed Forces Act etc etc, and I could be imprisoned for not reporting when ordered. Luckily I knew this desk officer personally and he knew me...so when I told him that if he tried any of that shit I'd burn his house down...my paper work suddenly went to the bottom of his in-tray !!!

    One of the reasons that the Italians were percieved as being cowards was because the average Italian serviceman had no confidence in the politicians or senior officers who they thought of as corrupt and self serving, they also didn't believe in teaming up with the Germans. Bliar with his part time Defence Secretary, and now Camerbaffoon with his ridiculous ideas for the armed forces have done huge damage the morale of the armed forces, pay freeze, equipment shortages, less manpower, wars that cannot be won, people dying needlessly for reasons that defy reasoned logic...the only thing that is newsworthy about this medic is that somehow he's been the only one.
  15. You finally posted something I agree with...
  16. You're stalking him, you said the same last week.:-D
  17. I blame your senility, I mean my senility, err who am I...
  18. Senile? I have erections quite regularly, at least twice a year,.. regular as clockwork I am.:laughing2:
  19. Whose erections were those then?
  20. I don't disagree, but I do have a modicum of sympathy for him.

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