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Deleting of Posts!

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Seadog said:
higthepig wrote
a few times, it is the viewpoint of different posters that make it interesting, anything that thwarts free speech is censorship, after all it is a web site on the internet, an unofficial website at that.

So anything goes on the internet does it? No-one can attract unwanted attention for what they post/host on the internet? Where have you been? I've had a contentious post deleted by the one of the COs after a complaint from someone mentioned in the press. I'm not sure what I got wrong, the press probably did too. Either way, I was a mod at the time of deletion, no drama, took it on the chin, lesson learned.

RR is the COs' train set. So long as they let the moderators hold the controls, they must approve of what we are doing, censorship and all.

As anyone can join this site be they ex or serving servicemen and women, reservists, civvies, politicians, researchers for any groups of activists, intelligence officers of extremist cells or journalists et al who can all appear under psuedonyms, what is the point of censorship?

Unless members and prospective members are rigorously vetted by the site owners, as they are the guys who fear that they eventually could possibly be stood in the dock, anyone and everyone can roam around this site and ARRSE collecting information most of which is in the public domain already and especially matters that to me at least, are breaches of security?

In the Current Affairs Forum we are asked to provide links to any topics which we wish to raise. This alone suggests that the topics are already in the public domain be it newspapers, TV radio or on the internet and as such can be disscussed openly by the populace who as we all know hold many differing veiws.

This is an informal site and all the disscusions that take place here can also be heard in pubs, workplaces, church halls, schools and any other places where people meet. I have yet to see an army of censors running
around the streets of Great Britain preventing the right of freedom of speech.

May I suggest that if the COs via the MODs, who I think are in an unenviable position, wish to protect the sites from "unwanted attention" at any level, a comprehensive list of do's and dont's be posted so we can ALL sing from the same hymn book or if the fear of prosecution is so great the sites are shut down.

I'am after all your anonymous,

Pol
 
What I believe is rankling them is the manner in which you have been doing it - a tad over assertive and in some cases, I have to say, downright rude

As rude as this?

Seadog you did not pose the question what do we want to see in current affairs so wind your neck in.

There are still people who 'don't get it'. RR Currrent Affairs moderation policy is based on that in ARRSE. There is no reason for them to be different. PartTimePongo was moderating ARRSE CA when I got there and over three years there I've seen what is accepted and what isn't. PTP has even had reason to bin or move posts I've made or even threads I've started. I learned along the way and didn't start whinging threads about the 'cyber Nazi' at the helm. If I wanted to write bollocks I went to the NAAFI. There is that option here too.

Current Affairs is the serious bit. I ask for links because 'some people make sh1t up'. If a story is running in the dailies, link it. If you can't because there is no link, perhaps it's a buzz and may not belong in Current Affairs. If a serious thread turns into a piss take thread and doesn't get back on topic, it gets moved. I'll give reasons for deletions where I feel the individual deserves the courtesy or the forum/thread/membership/unregistered viewers will benefit. Sometimes it takes too much time and won't make a difference so, Andym, I won't spell it out.

Moderation is supposed to be light handed and moderators are supposed to enjoy contributing as posters. However there is a small core of malcontents and one isolated ranter who can sometimes make the moderators' jobs more confrontational than anyone would like. With so few regular posters, the posse tend to have a higher profile and so my tolerance of low brow posts in a serious forum is lower than some brows.

So long as the COs want a certain 'tone' and public profile for RR or certain forums within it (and those on ARRSE) that's what they'll get. The moderators are in sympathy with those aims.

I've run out of ways to explain this.
 
And therein lies the rub seadog. You claim some people don't get it and you've run out of ways to explain the policy you operate. I don't think anyone has questioned you on the policy.

Most of us have difficulty in the way you appear to see fit to administer this policy (that's now the 3rd time I have posted this comment). Your stated opinion on giving reasons for your actions to posters is laughable. To say "Sometimes it takes too much time and won't make a difference ....." does, I am afraid, say more about you than it does of those who are challenging you.

I am afraid, sir, that among those you accuse of 'not getting it', I include you.

My work here is done and I will now say no more on the subject other than a Moderator should rise above the vitriol, not be a part of it and in some instances be the actual cause of it.

Make of this what you will, but I fear I am bashing my head against the proverbial.

GK
 
Ok, here's my viewpoint.

I'd like Current Affairs to be just that. Current Affairs that affect us as serving personnel , Regular and Reserve. I'd like topics of a sufficient gravitas , to really bring out the best in posters, and for people to come away from the debate or thread thinking "Damn me, I learnt something there" Especially the gold braided grown-ups.

Some posters have already demonstrated a quite astonishing grasp of analysis, cause and effect. Others however have not, but it takes all sorts.

CA is not there for "Cat up a tree get's it's chebs out and claims asylum" stories. Unfortunately , we're slightly hamstrung by not having a 'tabloid' type forum here, but Quarterdeck seems to be taking on that role.

Current Affairs on RR is not "Just another CA board on the Internet". The intention is to have it become THE Naval related CA forum on the Internet.

People criticise Seadogs' seemingly draconian moderation. Personally I'm all for it.

In the early days of Arrse, I opted for a draconian approach to the CA forum, and got more flak for it, than the Stringbag pilot on the final run-in against Bismarck. "Why won't you let us rubbish Qu*ers, P*kis and Nig-n*gs , my freedom of speech is infringed , this is supposed to be an Army board, that's how we talk you fcuking gay stab cnut etc etc etc"

Strangely, 99.9% of all complaints on moderation came from never served civilians, or people who'd been out of the Forces since getting paid off by Wellington.

I kept getting flak, and I stuck to the task and vision I saw, which was a forum that would be taken seriously, and regarded as worthy enough to be regarded highly.

I'm not saying I've done that, but Arrse Current Affairs is now read by No.10 , Members of the Lords and MP's, Senior Military Chiefs and frequently quoted in the Media.Some of the contributors we've picked up, are household names in the Forces, or experten in their fields.

Did Arrse save CGS's bacon? I'm not saying we did, but the anger of Soldiers was first highlighted on Arrse, and we led the field in making damn sure the world knew British soldiers were dischuffed.

To get the forum, up, running and respected, which keeps the less open minded gold braiders off our backs, we need to be seen to be being adult, AND contributing items of worth, that have the Mahogany warship sailors thinking "This is an asset"

Seadog has taken to this task , and laid his stall out plain to see. This forum is going to be taken seriously , and that means a shakedown cruise.

Moderation is difficult at the best of times, it is certainly not a popularity contest , and you will never please all of the people all of the time.

I'll delete bone posts, I'll delete posts with excessive profanity. I'll delete posts that are rascist. I will PM a poster, if I think he is unaware of the rules.

I won't PM a poster who is patently taking the piss. He or she already knows why that thread or post got chopped, and whining about "Freedom of speech" is not going to cut it.

I will publicly announce why a thread is closed, especially if that poster took the piss into the bargain, though 9 times out of 10 , the reason is self-evident.

There is one subject that we are not going to be swayed on. Discussion of ongoing courts-martial, or civil cases involving service personnel. I would have thought the reasons for this, on a forum used by serving personnel were obvious.

If you want salicious gossip , stick to the media, but we are not going to open ourselves up to a mis-trial or sub-judice , therefore all posts related to these matters will be culled.

Seadog may seem heavy handed, but his approach is far lighter than mine. He is also new to this, and doesn't have the nearly 5 years I have on Arrse, co-operation is always better than confrontation.

Seadog will continue to moderate in the way he does, with my support until such time as a lighter touch is required, because the vast majority of posters 'get it'.

RR CA is going to be a forum of note, and it is going to make people proud to be associated with it, as posters are on Arrse CA.

So instead of complaining about 'bone moderation' , look at the quality of the posts you're putting in.

More quality = less moderation , and the chance that the points you are making, will be picked up and acted on by the grown ups.

There are many Naval forums on the interweb, there is only ONE Rum Ration CA forum which can and will become the First and Best point of reference for matters concerning the mood on the messdecks and in the wardrooms.


Make it so.

PTP
 
Seadog said:
[


I'll give reasons for deletions where I feel the individual deserves the courtesy or the forum/thread/membership/unregistered viewers will benefit. Sometimes it takes too much time and won't make a difference so, Andym, I won't spell it out.

I see,so you decided off your own bat NOT to give me the courtesy of a reason for deletion??And you then basically go on to say you cant be bloody bothered to, as in your mind it wouldnt make a difference?How do you know this?Are you a Mindreader as well?Well personally i think you are just being bloody minded,rude and obviously have an issue with me!All i wanted was a reason for the deletion of my posts and to date STILL havent had one!All the resulting posts/flak that have been made could have been avoided by the Simple expedient of a reson for deletion.But then as you so succinctly put it "Sometimes it takes too much time and won't make a difference".It costs nothing to have good manners!FFS how long does it take to type in a few words of explanation of deletion?Too long for you obviously!Also i fail to see how i was responsible for you locking the thread!Maybe you were looking for a fall guy?I cant see how a light hearted post,to Whit "Do you have a reference to back your arggument up?",which you deleted twice ,required you to lock the thread AND then blame me!
 
I think PTP has made some good points there, I'm new to RR and Arrse and I think by and large if you fcuk up fellow members will tell you so, not everyone knows the rules inside out, I dont want to start any arguments with anyone but of what I have experianced in my short time so far, the mods have a job to do and do it in a pretty light handed way, like I say I class myself as new to these forums and am still learning.
 
PTP

Oh dear……..another moderator applying his ego/personality……
That might be the way YOU want RR to end up but there’s no doubt that to achieve it you have to apply censorship and that is wrong.

If you want credibility for current affairs you don’t achieve it by deleting and moulding threads so that they end up voicing YOUR personal opinion and that’s what Seadog is doing and that’s what everyone is complaining about.

Carry on deleting posts and most heated interesting debate will be out of the window…
Then we`ll be left with “gardeners question time†- Is that seriously what you want?


……..
 
I agree wet_blobby, PTP has stated his policy and it sounds good to me. Whilst I post all over RR I enjoy the debate on Current Affairs most of all. I think that serious debate has to occasionally be broken up by some humour and am as guilty as most of sometimes being inappropriate with that humour, when I am, I don't mind being told so!

Andy, I don't remember seeing the post that caused SeaDog to remove it but I think that continuing this argument is pointless and in all honesty flogging a dead horse, I understand your grievance as you don't think it was in any way offensive, however the forum moderator did, end of dit.

This isn't the first time this has happened, not long ago there was a rebellion against The_Matlow I have no idea why as I wasn't involved but the whole thing got very childish in my opinion and dragged on for longer than I would consider a healthy period, I suspect there was a hidden agenda, some stirring which I wasn't privy to?

I think the point is this: the moderator moderates under the authority of the site owners, as Sea Dog says if you aren't happy mail them. If you still don't like it go elsewhere because there is no where else to go!

Now I don't want you to go because I like your humour and your input is in my opinion valuable and intelligent, but can we let this go......please! Then maybe people will start to use the Current Affairs forum again, I have noticed the Quarterdeck is currently being used for current affairs issues, it's sad :sad:
 
chieftiff said:
Andy, I don't remember seeing the post that caused SeaDog to remove it but I think that continuing this argument is pointless and in all honesty flogging a dead horse, I understand your grievance as you don't think it was in any way offensive, however the forum moderator did, end of dit.

It was removed within seconds of posting.I actually thought i had made an error so reposted it.Thats when i found out they were deleted,with no reason given.i am inclined to agree with you that i am flogging a dead horse.However its the Principle of the thing.As a Moderator on a different site(no Military connection)i will as a matter of course AND good manners let posters know the reasons why any posts were deleted or Threads locked in Open forum.To date,in the last 3 years,the only deletion i made were to Porn Spammers,and i even gave them a reason as to why!After all its only good practise and good manners to do so.If the moderator DID fnd my post offensive then WHY didnt he say so?He has as much said he just cant be bothered!Nice attitude for a Moderator to have isnt it?I still wait in hope!Nil desperandum!
 
andym said:
chieftiff said:
Andy, I don't remember seeing the post that caused SeaDog to remove it but I think that continuing this argument is pointless and in all honesty flogging a dead horse, I understand your grievance as you don't think it was in any way offensive, however the forum moderator did, end of dit.

It was removed within seconds of posting.I actually thought i had made an error so reposted it.Thats when i found out they were deleted,with no reason given.i am inclined to agree with you that i am flogging a dead horse.However its the Principle of the thing.As a Moderator on a different site(no Military connection)i will as a matter of course AND good manners let posters know the reasons why any posts were deleted or Threads locked in Open forum.To date,in the last 3 years,the only deletion i made were to Porn Spammers,and i even gave them a reason as to why!After all its only good practise and good manners to do so.If the moderator DID fnd my post offensive then WHY didnt he say so?He has as much said he just cant be bothered!Nice attitude for a Moderator to have isnt it?I still wait in hope!Nil desperandum!

Chill mate, I'm sure you have a reason to be angry, and I'm equaly sure seadog has a reason for pulling your comments, when seadog explains to you perhaps we can all learn where the line is. I doubt very much he has any kind of agenda against you, what little I've seen of you, you are witty and informative, you have certainly helped me and I am grateful for that, I think through PTP we now have a clearer idea of what the end product of CA is desired by the mods.
 
Oh dear……..another moderator applying his ego/personality……

Sorry Albert, I switched off after that, as I've seen this dit before.

CheifTiff, I do like a well made and humourous thread on CA , in between the serious bits.

The Kofi Annan Bounty thread, and the mystic dwarves featuring the good Judge involved his own self on Arrse CA are like oases. There is always room for a good chuckle :)
 
PartTimePongo said:
I'd like topics of a sufficient gravitas.........
Current Affairs on RR is not "Just another CA board on the Internet". The intention is to have it become THE Naval related CA forum on the Internet....Arrse Current Affairs is now read by No.10 , Members of the Lords and MP's, Senior Military Chiefs and frequently quoted in the Media.Some of the contributors we've picked up, are household names in the Forces, or experten in their fields.
To get the forum, up, running and respected, which keeps the less open minded gold braiders off our backs, we need to be seen to be being adult, AND contributing items of worth, that have the Mahogany warship sailors thinking "This is an asset"
........ a forum of note, and it is going to make people proud to be associated with it, as posters are on Arrse CA.

More quality = less moderation , and the chance that the points you are making, will be picked up and acted on by the grown ups.

There are many Naval forums on the interweb, there is only ONE Rum Ration CA forum which can and will become the First and Best point of reference for matters concerning the mood on the messdecks and in the wardrooms.
PTP

Bugger Me! and I thought this was the "very unofficial website of the RN" for "Rumour gossip intrigue and bullshit" how wrong I was..............
 
PTP[/quote]

Bugger Me! and I thought this was the "very unofficial website of the RN" for "Rumour gossip intrigue and bullshit" how wrong I was..............[/quote]

If its gonna be official I'd best go and find me cap, cos I'm certainly going to need it for defaulters.
 
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