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Debate on Sea Cadets funding

Samson

Badgeman
"the URNU, which is not regarded a means of recruiting, is funded to the tune of over £5M per year. Each of the 14 URNUs generate an averate of about two successful Officer candidates per year per unit, or so I believe."

Nonsence, the RN use the URNUs for the recruitment, just because they are canny enough not to push too hard does not mean many a student hasn't joined on the back of their experiences in URNU. From my URNU, at a rough count, I reckon there are 12 people seriously planning to join. So for the £5 million the navy yets 56 perspective officers, who are much less likely to wash out of BRNC, plus the ability to give 14 Lts their own commands. That is not to say that I don't think the SCC should not be properly funded - they should - but please don't set on the URNU's just because SCC is properly financed, it should't be one or t'other.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Samson said:
"the URNU, which is not regarded a means of recruiting, is funded to the tune of over £5M per year. Each of the 14 URNUs generate an average of about two successful Officer candidates per year per unit, or so I believe."

Nonsence, the RN use the URNUs for the recruitment, just because they are canny enough not to push too hard does not mean many a student hasn't joined on the back of their experiences in URNU. From my URNU, at a rough count, I reckon there are 12 people seriously planning to join. So for the £5 million the navy yets 56 perspective officers, who are much less likely to wash out of BRNC, plus the ability to give 14 Lts their own commands.

My bold.

If you're going to quote me, please have the courtesy to credit the author so that a response can be made to your assertion that my quoted statement is nonsense.

1. I was a Coxswain of one of the Oxbridge URNUs & currently work in Recruiting, so feel qualified to comment and return the compliment as you joined your URNU fairly recently....

2. The URNU mission statement: "...to educate a wide spectrum of high calibre undergraduates who show potential as society's future leaders and opinion formers in the role and need for the Royal Navy" carefully avoids the use of the term 'recruitment' for good reason. The fact that it subliminally advertises the RN is doubtless a bonus, however it would be disbanded tomorrow if it were to declare it's existence solely for recruiting purposes as it would be too costly for CNR to fund.

3. Your maths appears a little awry: Each of the 14 URNUs should have around 51 students (around a maximum of 17 per year enrolled), Therefore:

If your URNU has 12 prospective officers, that averages 4 potential candidates per year, assuming they undertake a 3 year degree (Masters & Medics excepted). You’ll probably find that your URNU, on average has had about two successful Officer Candidates entering BRNC per year for the last 10 years, if it reflects the national trend.

4. Due to, amongst other things, the relaxed medical standards at the URNU, there is no way whatsoever that the Navy gains 56 potential officers per year for it’s £5M per year investment.

5. I wish you well in your URNU & future aspirations. You will come to learn that the coxswain (2i/c) has not been drafted to your unit by accident & serves a purpose, much as the senior rates at AIB and those at BRNC do likewise. The URNU organisation, of which I am a huge fan, survives on the grounds that it exists as a paradox. If it were there purely as a PR exercise it could not be justified, similarly it cannot be justified as a purely recruiting instrument & therefore it ducks, dives & jumps through hoops between the stumps to simply exist- make the most of it.

6. If ever there was any sage advice to offer, it’s this: “Pay your bloody mess billâ€. I’m sure I’m echoed up and down the land in that sentiment.
 
To back up the recruiting argument. The approach of one of my URNU CO's to selection was 'I only want the who are unsure about joining the RN so we can persuade them, the definates we can pass on to the RNR'. As there was an individual from 1PBS on the selection panel, one can assume that this was their attitude as well. So they are using it to actively recruit,just not saying as much. That said, the URNUs like the SCC do provide a lot of 'flag waving' that the Fleet simply hasn't got the ships or men to do any more.
 

FLAGHOIST

Badgeman
Always_a_Civvy said:
I must be honest, I had always assumed that the SCC was completely funded by the MOD and fund raising was purely for extras. It is a pity that this is not the case. Given the benefits they confer it would be nice if local councils provided the additional funding - a better use of my council tax than frittering it away on paying councillors salaries or buying the Mayor a new car!



Getting funding from Councils is like getting blood from a stone. My local Unit is in a building that has been condemned by the Council (It is an old disused school dining room). Their most recent offer for a new building is that they have given a plot of old council land, with an asbestos clad building which as to be removed. They have said that they will help if the Unit can raise a figure before hand. That figure is £56000.

Because there are now so many Charity Organisations in the country, it is more and more difficult to raise money. Plus ther is the factor that no one likes having kids in uniforms on the streets. Other kids pick on them, as do some grown ups. Every town moans about the yob culture in their towns and areas, but do not raise a finger to help those who are trying to achieve something.

Regards, Chris


 

Hammy514

Midshipman
The SCC in the public eye is one of a very smart bunch of sailors and marines, this is seen at the launching of (to date) the 3 new type 45's. A SCC Guard of Honour has been in the lime light at all these launches. The guard have been made up from Sea Cadets of Northern Area, and will be for the remainder of the launches. The SCC got this honour from the 2nd Sea Lord, as the "real" Navy let him down for a guard for the Trafalgar Dispatches one year, and the SCC provided an immaculate guard within a week.

BZ the sea cadets!!!!!!!!

P.S. can you tell Im an instructor with them
 

FLAGHOIST

Badgeman


The Sea Cadets do like to be at the fore, and take honour when offered to such things as guards etc at such parades as Trafalgar Day, and other national and local events.

It is not uncommon for the Mayor of a town to have one or two Cadets as the Mayor's Cadets, and may accompany him or her to mayoral events as such duties and car door openers, escorts, etc.

I know my unit would pounce at such events. In fact it was saddening to see the faces of those who did not get a place.

Go to any RNP (Royal Naval Parade, formerly RN Inspection) at a Unit near you and see how the Cadets get stuck in, and do the task put to them. More often than not, better than your average matelot.

This is why Councils, Local Businesses should support their Cadets, whether Sea, Army or Air. Every town has its youth problems, and here are organisations that help in this. Some units having 30 to 60 Cadets, maybe more in some cases. These numbers are off the streets, not just on the two drill nights, but throughout the week, because they enjoy what they do, and why they do it.

Support your local Sea Cadet Unit.

Regards, Chris

 

NotmeChief

Banned
Can't support the ones in Drake any longer, they have dumped them god know where and given their meeting room and drill shed to Drakes brass band.

That's not the marine band, it's the civvy band.
 

FLAGHOIST

Badgeman


It is not unusual for Units of Cadets to be moved out of where they have been to allow another faculty in who maybe able to afford the rent on the premises. It is hard for Units to raise funds, and it is becoming more harder to get rent free or peppercorn rent property.

Over the weekend, I saw the Cadets of my local unit out on the streets standing outside local supermarkets raising money one of the few Flag Days they are allowed. The majority of the public were walking past them.

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SEA CADET UNIT


Regards, Chris

 

The_Jimmy

War Hero
G'day

Interesting thread this about the Sea Cadet funding the AussieGov are looking into it as well for our Cadets.
 

CdoGunner

Newbie
Having just taken the position of Chair of our local Unit and a little aghast at the funds provided by MoD Navy, I contacted most of the local organisations who may be able to help. The local Chamber of Commerce gave me a spot at their breakfast meeting result one mini bus (second hand 3 years old) and portacabin classroom. Further contacts had Tesco’s sponsor a rebuild of the galley and the local Freemasons donated £2k. Even in these constrained times money is available but you do have to work for it.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
CdoGunner: Well done on your efforts so far, and I hope they are rewarded tenfold. And welcome to Rum Ration! :thumright:
 
CdoGunner said:
Having just taken the position of Chair of our local Unit and a little aghast at the funds provided by MoD Navy, I contacted most of the local organisations who may be able to help. The local Chamber of Commerce gave me a spot at their breakfast meeting result one mini bus (second hand 3 years old) and portacabin classroom. Further contacts had Tesco’s sponsor a rebuild of the galley and the local Freemasons donated £2k. Even in these constrained times money is available but you do have to work for it.

Good for you mate, it sounds like your unit are lucky to have someone as yourself in charge.

Welcome to the site :)
 

britbat

Midshipman
Bloody good value for maney you say - feck aye, I say. There are, and have been a number of good people in the Navy because of the introduction they had from the Sea Cadets. Look at me (no don't as i am sitting naked in front of my computer - a bit like monty python really) but anyway, as i was saying, bravo to the SCC and long may it survive with or without RN funding.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
CdoGunner said:
Having just taken the position of Chair of our local Unit and a little aghast at the funds provided by MoD Navy, ..

Again, unlike the ATC & ACF, the SCC deliberately opted out of central funding of their own volition. I'm a huge fan of the SCC & indeed the Sea Scouts as they provide a huge source of well-informed potential recruits.

Sadly however, very few Sea Cadets seem to routinely gain Duke of Edinburgh Awards, be adequately clothed in smart uniforms, or have sufficient funding to subsidise camps away from their home areas.

It would be very simply remedied were it not for the fact they chose to go their own way & perhaps the time has finally come for them to reconsider their autonomous status.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
britbat said:
...Look at me (no don't as i am sitting naked in front of my computer - a bit like monty python really)...

:wtf:

 
I remember we used to raise our own funds with things like flag days and functions. But then we perhaps had an advantage as we were onboard the Belfast. I really think that if the SCC were to come under MOD(N) funding it would just be another pot to be dipped into when needed to the detriment of all cadets.
 

CdoGunner

Newbie
britbat said:
Bloody good value for maney you say - feck aye, I say. There are, and have been a number of good people in the Navy because of the introduction they had from the Sea Cadets. Look at me (no don't as i am sitting naked in front of my computer - a bit like monty python really) but anyway, as i was saying, bravo to the SCC and long may it survive with or without RN funding.


Not only to the RN we have had two Cadets join the Guards this year, wonder if I write to their Colonel we may be able to scrounge some kit. Now as a ex soldier and ex Sea Cadet I can only state that being a cadet made RCB not quite as much of a shock and I feel I owe the Corps a great deal.

So have a look in Yellow Pages/ Net search and see what you can get from your local industry and do not forget to remind them that any donation is tax deductible, that assumes anybody is making a profit.
 

The_Jimmy

War Hero
CdoGunner said:
Having just taken the position of Chair of our local Unit and a little aghast at the funds provided by MoD Navy, I contacted most of the local organisations who may be able to help. The local Chamber of Commerce gave me a spot at their breakfast meeting result one mini bus (second hand 3 years old) and portacabin classroom. Further contacts had Tesco’s sponsor a rebuild of the galley and the local Freemasons donated £2k. Even in these constrained times money is available but you do have to work for it.

BZ mate!
 

stripey588

Midshipman
Ninja_Stoker said:
CdoGunner said:
Having just taken the position of Chair of our local Unit and a little aghast at the funds provided by MoD Navy, ..

Again, unlike the ATC & ACF, the SCC deliberately opted out of central funding of their own volition. I'm a huge fan of the SCC & indeed the Sea Scouts as they provide a huge source of well-informed potential recruits.

Sadly however, very few Sea Cadets seem to routinely gain Duke of Edinburgh Awards, be adequately clothed in smart uniforms, or have sufficient funding to subsidise camps away from their home areas.

It would be very simply remedied were it not for the fact they chose to go their own way & perhaps the time has finally come for them to reconsider their autonomous status.

you are correct ninja, the SCC did indeed opt out of overall MOD (N) control.

it may have been forward thinking way back then, several ATC bases/units have closed to save money recently. as we are not covered by MOD, they cant shut down individual units, as such, as each unit is an individual charity.

but even IF we were under MOD banner, we would struggle. they could shut units willy nilly. our boat maintenance budget has been cut massivley. sea cadets without boats, honest. the kit issue is a problem we tried to sort recently with a petition to the PM, but we were fobbed off. we do not get issued boots or wet weather gear, and asked for first refusal of returned kit before the civvy disposal mob get it, but were fobbed off.

as a marine cadet instructor, our cadets are inspected EVERY parade night, and always look smart. we teach them to wash, iron, and look after their kit, AND themselves.

funding will always be a problem. we tried to get several grants, which the cadets had to pitch themselves, but too many people still think the MOD do fund us, and so grants just dont get issued to us.

we had had 4 lads join the army in the last 3 years, 1 submariner, and a couple of matlots.

we have been homeless for 4 years and have had our last 2 unit inspections in a 12 x 12 at the local resovoir. our marine section recieved a good on the field assessment, and we acchieved a grade 1 (top) for our efforts throught the year (all numbers on paper for the RN inspection sadly)

our local council are being arses about our new building which we have the money for, but want brick, as a wood building would look out of place (its in a TA center grounds, next to a train line, a mobile phone mast, and a mosque).

the SCC merged with the maritime society several years ago, because they had a big bank balance, but this seems to have moved us further away from the RN and more towards the merchant navy.

many staff are funding quite a lot of stuff themselves, in small doses, but it adds up. the lack of support from the goverment, who decided to put £880 million for more CCF (ggggggggrrrrr) in public schools, when the sea cadets are in many tows already pissed us all off, as well as ACF and ATC.

and lastly, with the new H&S rules the SCC has brought in. H&S teams can visit a unit, and inform then of any defects that need fixing, but offer NO ADVICE or FINANCIAL assistance. the unit has to sort it. many buildings are a old, but have done the job for years and are expected to be tip top asap.

we do it because we enjoy it, (technichally, we are all stupid and need sectioning) and enjoy it. sadly, the paperwork, and lack of support from the goverment is depressing.

with all the bad press todays youth get, we have kids doing amazing stuff, off the streets, and achieving qualifications, and what do we get?

CHUFF ALL.

we have the infrastructure, the staff and the kids, just give us the kit to do the job, and stop dishig out money to immigrants, and those belguim free loadig gimp wearig baskets. (sorry lost it there).

we do raise money for our unit, but sadly, living in a very densly muslim area, we also have to break off early when our asian bretheran see soldiers and sailors in uniform (NOT CHILDREN IN A YOUTH GROUP).

right, rant over, lol got lesson plans to sort out (actually ice skating for xmas party).

merry xmas to all.
 

The_Jimmy

War Hero
stripey588 said:
Ninja_Stoker said:
CdoGunner said:
Having just taken the position of Chair of our local Unit and a little aghast at the funds provided by MoD Navy, ..

Again, unlike the ATC & ACF, the SCC deliberately opted out of central funding of their own volition. I'm a huge fan of the SCC & indeed the Sea Scouts as they provide a huge source of well-informed potential recruits.

Sadly however, very few Sea Cadets seem to routinely gain Duke of Edinburgh Awards, be adequately clothed in smart uniforms, or have sufficient funding to subsidise camps away from their home areas.

It would be very simply remedied were it not for the fact they chose to go their own way & perhaps the time has finally come for them to reconsider their autonomous status.

you are correct ninja, the SCC did indeed opt out of overall MOD (N) control.

it may have been forward thinking way back then, several ATC bases/units have closed to save money recently. as we are not covered by MOD, they cant shut down individual units, as such, as each unit is an individual charity.

but even IF we were under MOD banner, we would struggle. they could shut units willy nilly. our boat maintenance budget has been cut massivley. sea cadets without boats, honest. the kit issue is a problem we tried to sort recently with a petition to the PM, but we were fobbed off. we do not get issued boots or wet weather gear, and asked for first refusal of returned kit before the civvy disposal mob get it, but were fobbed off.

as a marine cadet instructor, our cadets are inspected EVERY parade night, and always look smart. we teach them to wash, iron, and look after their kit, AND themselves.

funding will always be a problem. we tried to get several grants, which the cadets had to pitch themselves, but too many people still think the MOD do fund us, and so grants just dont get issued to us.

we had had 4 lads join the army in the last 3 years, 1 submariner, and a couple of matlots.

we have been homeless for 4 years and have had our last 2 unit inspections in a 12 x 12 at the local resovoir. our marine section recieved a good on the field assessment, and we acchieved a grade 1 (top) for our efforts throught the year (all numbers on paper for the RN inspection sadly)

our local council are being arses about our new building which we have the money for, but want brick, as a wood building would look out of place (its in a TA center grounds, next to a train line, a mobile phone mast, and a mosque).

the SCC merged with the maritime society several years ago, because they had a big bank balance, but this seems to have moved us further away from the RN and more towards the merchant navy.

many staff are funding quite a lot of stuff themselves, in small doses, but it adds up. the lack of support from the goverment, who decided to put £880 million for more CCF (ggggggggrrrrr) in public schools, when the sea cadets are in many tows already pissed us all off, as well as ACF and ATC.

and lastly, with the new H&S rules the SCC has brought in. H&S teams can visit a unit, and inform then of any defects that need fixing, but offer NO ADVICE or FINANCIAL assistance. the unit has to sort it. many buildings are a old, but have done the job for years and are expected to be tip top asap.

we do it because we enjoy it, (technichally, we are all stupid and need sectioning) and enjoy it. sadly, the paperwork, and lack of support from the goverment is depressing.

with all the bad press todays youth get, we have kids doing amazing stuff, off the streets, and achieving qualifications, and what do we get?

CHUFF ALL.

we have the infrastructure, the staff and the kids, just give us the kit to do the job, and stop dishig out money to immigrants, and those belguim free loadig gimp wearig baskets. (sorry lost it there).

we do raise money for our unit, but sadly, living in a very densly muslim area, we also have to break off early when our asian bretheran see soldiers and sailors in uniform (NOT CHILDREN IN A YOUTH GROUP).

right, rant over, lol got lesson plans to sort out (actually ice skating for xmas party).

merry xmas to all.

Mate,

We all love a challenge :thumright: But how do you guys keep going faced with all that BS? Surley the local councils would be right behind you (local youth) I have asked a mate who is in the ANC and he says his local council is 100% behind them as is the case from most councils, in fact his council has just gave him a big cheque.

ANC is funded by the community, and some by the Navy In fact the last federal government gave the ADFC $10million to spend. However I am also told that money hasnt got down to cadet level yet!

I must show him this thread.

Cant you guys split again and go back to MoD (N) funding?

Any way BZ you blokes do a great job for the youth of the country! :thumright: :thumright:
 
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