Debate on Sea Cadets funding

Discussion in 'SCC and URNU' started by Always_a_Civvy, Apr 19, 2007.

Welcome to the Navy Net aka Rum Ration

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial RN website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Yesterday in the House of Commons, in Westminster Hall, a Debate took place, initiated by Chris Bryant (MP for Rhondda) into funding for local units of the SCC. Although his specific point was about the fact that Rhondda SCC only receive £200 a year from the Marine Society and their annual £1500 insurance costs, a more general point was made about whether the MOD would consider providing cover for the insurance costs of all SCC units.

    The Minister (Derek Twigg, PUSS for Defence) acknowledged that:

    And the Minister gave the following undertaking [if anything comes of it]:

    You can read the full Debate in: HC Hansard: 18 April 2007, Cols.97-103WH.
  2. Which can be interpreted as we are not planning on any extra funding and hope the present survey will justify that descision. Hope you don't ask again.
  3. I must be honest, I had always assumed that the SCC was completely funded by the MOD and fund raising was purely for extras. It is a pity that this is not the case. Given the benefits they confer it would be nice if local councils provided the additional funding - a better use of my council tax than frittering it away on paying councillors salaries or buying the Mayor a new car!
  4. SCC units have to cover all their own running costs unlike the school attached CCF units, which means alot of hard work by instructors and parents and friends committees
    Iwas recently involved with Twickenham Unit (TS Saumarez) as a CI and was gobsmacked at the annual running costs and insurance to maintain the unit and it's boats
    Sir Donald Gosling contributes to the SCC but help from the MOD would be nice
  5. Perhaps we could pursuade an SCC unit to call itself TS Rum Ration and sponsor them? :idea:
  6. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    STOP!!! Before we all get excited about funding for the SCC, in comparison with the ACF & ATC, the SCC themselves opted to become a free standing, self supporting charitable organisation many moons ago. They deliberately opted out of RN funding as they didn't want the RN dictating how they conducted their business. The SCC do in fact receive around £2M per year, or so I'm told, from the Royal Navy on a national basis. How they choose to spend it is a different matter.

    Interestingly, however the URNU, which is not regarded a means of recruiting, is funded to the tune of over £5M per year. Each of the 14 URNUs generate an averate of about two successful Officer candidates per year per unit, or so I believe.
  7. So for £5million a year, the RN gets about 28 successful Officer candidates from the URNU, surely the SCC provides more successful Officer candidates than that for £2million, plus all of the Ratings it provides, good little recruiter!
  8. URNU's were never intended as recruiting vehicles though, they exist to influence future leaders of industry etc. (IE present under-graduates) that the RN is a good thing.

    I wonder if a survey of past members (URNUs have been around long enough) has been conducted to establish how much influence ex-URNU members wield and how positive are their thoughts about the RN. 5 million is after all a substantial sum

    Judging by the figures quoted in the house the SCC remains a mainstay of RN recruiting. I like AAC's idea of RR sponsoring a unit.......
  9. Just to say I think the SCC is bloody good value for money, whoever pays. I don't think that Navy Days, IFOS and Remembrance Day Parades up and down the country, etc., could run without the cheerful participation of Sea Cadet marching bands, drill squads, guides and programme sellers. I can't count the number of times I've heard members of the public say, "Aren't the sailors getting younger these days - but don't they look smart?" Hats off to 'em all, and their volunteer staffs.
  10. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Couldn't agree more. The truth is that we (the RN) are that stretched in this current climate, that we cannot possibly supply manpower to these events. I only wish the Cadets (and RNR for that matter) could go out on URNU P2000s on a regular basis, rather than when the first priority, the "not to be recruited" students, aren't using them.
  11. the SCC did indeed opt out of the MOD umbrella. it has both good and bad points.

    as a charity the scc recieve some funding from the MOD. this funding mainly covers uniforms, boats,staff training, and some other items which im unsure of.

    BUT, each individual unit is responsible for its own premises, utillity bills, insurance, any vehicles etc.


    i am from TS MOHAWK, in blackburn. an old CO decided that we would buy a building for a hq. our running costs were £12,00 PER YEAR. when the new CO took over, it was discovered that we only had the lease hold.

    basically, we were tied to the building, and all repairs had to be met buy the unit. the land owners could at any time insist that the unit was put back into the condition it was when we bought it.


    our new CO gets funding for a disabled toilet. (all scc units are now subject to rigid H&S regulations, but no assistance in financing them). new thunder box is fitted, and inspected. the sparkie informs the CO that due to our very dated electrics system, the unit must close untill repairs are carried out. cost £80,000. no one will touch our electrics untill the roof is sorted. cost £100,000 plus.

    anyhow. we have managed to sell the site back to the original seller. the money is put asside for a new building.

    we have currently been homless for 3 years this year, but are still plodding on.

    yours aye

  12. have you got in contact with anyone from W-S-M unit they were in a very similar situation and now have a rather posh new building etc
  13. A reasonable comparison of the cadet corps can be seen here: Register of MoD Youth Activities and the SCC can be seen to be one of the less well funded bodies, but I guess that's the price of being "more independent".
    As for getting the cadets on the P2000s, it depends mainly upon the training programme. My boss had tried to get as much interaction with the local units around here as possible; I think that they've done two or three day trips this year with some cadets onboard, with more planned for later in the year but they are constrained by H&S, etc as much as the next unit.


    Also, I'm sure I've seen a piece of MoD literature mentioning the URNUs as a method for active recruiting; I'll try and find it...
  14. F169 said "URNU's were never intended as recruiting vehicles though, they exist to influence future leaders of industry etc. (IE present under-graduates) that the RN is a good thing." but the RN say "to educate a wide spectrum of high calibre undergraduates who show potential as society's future leaders and opinion formers in order to better inform them of the need for and role of the Royal Navy, and to develop awareness of career opportunities in the service".

    Now this last line to me reads that they do have a secondary recruiting role.
  15. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    I think you are correct, but they are (or were) funded under BRNC not Director of Naval Recruiting (DNR) & can, & still do, pull the plug when it suits.

    Not all units granted, but enough to ensure that they have the freedom to operate in the guise of an educator rather than a recruiter.

    Quite sad, I feel when they (P2000s) seem to stay largely static from Mon-Fri during term times. (OK, accepted the ship's coy., who've worked a weekend need days off in lieu- but there's still MWV crews available, despite the howls of protest)
  16. we have permission from our local TA unit for a building on thier land. its just a matter of where we can put it, and ironing out our lease. the TA do have a old tube range that has been condemed, and the TA boss has been asking for 4 years to get it taken down. when we got permission to have some space, the TA big cheese's decide WE could pay the £12.000 lus to remove the tube range.

    naturally, we told them we can pay that, and afford the £100.000 for the unit, plus the £20.000 for getting the site ready.

    its all in the hands of the CO now.
  17. May I point out working in local goverment Councillors do not get paid a salary just expencces - you know the same as SCC ADults.

  18. Talking about SCC's their is a new thing coming out from MOD and areas, something called Westminster?? it seems that they are taking the lead that committee members, are profestionalls paid for by Mod. unpaid but are accountants, not unpaid civvys doing jobs because they like doing it, if all the volenteers quit they would be in a right state, as most units have a job getting staff as it is.
    As for T.A. the reserve forces are putting up a fight to get rid of the SCC here, as they don't want us and want to sell the land for £1mill. for housing, they would find a part of the local rifle range to put both the ACF and ATC. and the remainsof the TA which they are planning to move to another town.
  19. **** off Buccaneer - they get a set amount of expenses each year so it is wages. Councilors used to do it for love of their community, not now.

    Anyway back to subject.

    Every time I see those poor boys and girls in HMS Drake my heart bleads. They have a manky hand painted "TS Goldenhind" sign on the door, and next to **** all inside.
    They drill in all weathers, they do have an indoor hall but not really big enough for most drills.
    They have a ships wheel which is broken, the biggest dockyard in europe is next door, but can they get any assistance, NO, they have to pay an outsider to repair it, hence it sits there broken.
    They don't even have a computer.

    It's another Government - **** em - and as said earlier, Navy days and the majority of spectacles would fold without them.
    The country celebrated the abolishion of slavery just now, but it aint dead, it's flourishing in all the cadet corps around the country and the masters are the Government.
  20. Rumour has it that the Government, or Civil Servants close within, want to get rid of full bore rifle shooting within the cadet forces, it is for cash reasons (they have recently removed the LSW from cadets), but they instead claim that with the rise in gun crime it is irresponsible to teach cadets how to use weapons.

    Irresponsible to teach cadets how to safely use weapons, and teach them the dangers of weapons? What utter rubbish, how many cadets have committed gun crimes?

    The Sea Cadets are in many towns the only Naval "face" and believe me, cadets would much rather be closer to the Navy than the water sports (and even then very limited for insurance purposes) clubs they are fast becoming, I would say things have got worse since the SCC and Marine Society merged, things becoming less Naval and more Merchant. If kids want to join youth clubs they would go elsewhere, they want to learn the traditions and skills of their parent Armed Force. They need to listen to what the cadets want to get out of training, they want it to be closer to Armed Forces Basic training, the cadets help many kids become more disciplined, and confident in themselves.

    Time for them to be Royal Navy/al Cadets, with full funding from the MoD? I would say so, especially as sad as it may be, but let us not forget that at 13/14 peer pressure is very strong, many are put off, like it or not, by the name the Sea Cadets.

Share This Page