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DASA Figures

A

Art the Fart

Guest
Just been comparing 2000 figures with 2014's. RN Full-time Regulars
In 2000 there was 1 officer to 7 ratings
In 2014 1 officer to 4 ratings
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
Combination of smaller ships companies needing fewer large pools of ratings, and reduction in manpower overall. The less ships you have, and the more modern they are, the few ratings you'll need - the old counties needed 500 people onboard, the T42s 250-300, the T45s 150 or so. There willalways be a need for CO/XO/HODS/OOW etc, but you may only need 10 dabbers to do a job where previously 50 or 60 were needed. The manning situation reflects this.

Playing devils advocate, what do you think should be done about it?
 
A

Art the Fart

Guest
Can recognize the disease, but rely on the more enlightened to provide the cure.#
So I was off to the Legion.#
3Badge Tanky and the Chief Yeoman were there.
Tanky disappeared, not understanding the question, for a game of Shove Ha'penny
The Chief yeoman, arms waving, put forward a solution

All Officers' ships.

Pre-packed frozen meals with many microwaves provided.
A hamper from Fortnum and Mason. Their St James's Hamper @ £1,000.00 would keep them sustained during their long hours at sea. (Cheaper with bulk buying)
Gieves and Hawkes Sleeping Bags
Many Ironing Points.

So far as cleaning the ship:- he suggested.
Arrange a contract with CAPITA as HMS Belfast does in home waters
and Overseas the Naval Attaché could arrange for the nearest dock-side hotel to come and do it.
 
A

Art the Fart

Guest
Sorry--- The Chief further suggested Disposable Knives Forks Spoons Plates Cups , Saucers and Glasses.
 
Can recognize the disease, but rely on the more enlightened to provide the cure.#
So I was off to the Legion.#
3Badge Tanky and the Chief Yeoman were there.
Tanky disappeared, not understanding the question, for a game of Shove Ha'penny
The Chief yeoman, arms waving, put forward a solution

All Officers' ships.

Pre-packed frozen meals with many microwaves provided.
A hamper from Fortnum and Mason. Their St James's Hamper @ £1,000.00 would keep them sustained during their long hours at sea. (Cheaper with bulk buying)
Gieves and Hawkes Sleeping Bags
Many Ironing Points.

So far as cleaning the ship:- he suggested.
Arrange a contract with CAPITA as HMS Belfast does in home waters
and Overseas the Naval Attaché could arrange for the nearest dock-side hotel to come and do it.

Send crypto setting k
 

mikh

MIA
The RN is shrinking, and PT does have a point, but, we had a more ships in 2000, more aircraft, and the lean manning ships in the guise of the type 23 had already been commissioned, so the disparity in numbers using P_Ts argument can only come from the disposal of the few type 22s,the 42s that were still in service post 2000 and the introduction of the type 45s, if that is the case, the numbers do not quite add up to being the result of lean manning.

We also need to look at the number of establishments that have closed and the loss of RN hospitals where there would probably have been a higher % of ratings to officers, also we still need the supply and manning chain, and command structure, although with a decreasing fleet, this should also be shrinking.

A lot of other factors, that were way beyond my pay grade 'back in the day' will also be in play, but it does seem on paper that the reduction in the number of Indians far outweighs the reduction in the number of Chiefs
 
G

guestm

Guest
Can recognize the disease, but rely on the more enlightened to provide the cure.#
So I was off to the Legion.#
3Badge Tanky and the Chief Yeoman were there.
Tanky disappeared, not understanding the question, for a game of Shove Ha'penny
The Chief yeoman, arms waving, put forward a solution

All Officers' ships.

Pre-packed frozen meals with many microwaves provided.
A hamper from Fortnum and Mason. Their St James's Hamper @ £1,000.00 would keep them sustained during their long hours at sea. (Cheaper with bulk buying)
Gieves and Hawkes Sleeping Bags
Many Ironing Points.

So far as cleaning the ship:- he suggested.
Arrange a contract with CAPITA as HMS Belfast does in home waters
and Overseas the Naval Attaché could arrange for the nearest dock-side hotel to come and do it.


I would suggest you wait until at least 1900 before cracking open your Aldi sherry in future.

A lot of other factors, that were way beyond my pay grade 'back in the day' will also be in play, but it does seem on paper that the reduction in the number of Indians far outweighs the reduction in the number of Chiefs

We have this same conversation far too regularly on here and the same things have to continuously be explained. Defence has changed, the RN isn't just about ships anymore and you can't put ABs at many of these tables where we need equivalent rank to the other two.
 
A

Art the Fart

Guest
Does HMS Belfast go anywhere else? I understood she costs some £100,000.00 just to lie there rotting doing nothing.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
Arrange a contract with CAPITA as HMS Belfast does in home waters

My bold. You used three more words than you needed, three more that made your statement ambiguous.

Who does the cleaning when HMS Belfast is on deployment?

My subltle way of telling you that you used three words too many.

Does HMS Belfast go anywhere else?

No.

I understood she costs some £100,000.00 just to lie there rotting doing nothing.

You understood once but are not sure now? I don't know what the Imperial War Museum spends on her upkeep or what material condition HMS Belfast is in. Based on what you know about other matters naval, I suspect you don't either.
 
Actually, there's a secret cell in NCHQ for the total abolition of JRs. It's true, we Officers simply don't like them. By 2020, there will be a Fleet AB who will scrub out all the Wardroom cabins in the Fleet before turning to.
 

mikh

MIA
I would suggest you wait until at least 1900 before cracking open your Aldi sherry in future.



We have this same conversation far too regularly on here and the same things have to continuously be explained. Defence has changed, the RN isn't just about ships anymore and you can't put ABs at many of these tables where we need equivalent rank to the other two.

Monty, the RN has always been about ships, they are the pointy bit, the projection of power, sub surface, surface and the ones that carry the bits that fly, all the land based part of the RN should be there in support of the fleet, training, logistics, control and oversight.

I also note that you seem to equate ratings with ABs, I read Arts initial post to cover ALL ratings, and as a SR yourself, I am sure you have noticed the change in levels of responsibility given to SRs over the years.
 
G

guestm

Guest
Monty, the RN has always been about ships, they are the pointy bit, the projection of power, sub surface, surface and the ones that carry the bits that fly, all the land based part of the RN should be there in support of the fleet, training, logistics, control and oversight.

I also note that you seem to equate ratings with ABs, I read Arts initial post to cover ALL ratings, and as a SR yourself, I am sure you have noticed the change in levels of responsibility given to SRs over the years.


First sentence shows how out of the loop you are I'm afraid. That's not a slight at all so don't take it as one, just an observation. We're not just about ships anymore, we can't be or we won't survive, in fact one of the reasons we've found ourselves depleted is because we relied on being the Senior Service and it being 'just about ships', we were late to the jointery party and in many cases still are. I attended a Joint circle jerk last week that is of enormous benefit to understand Joint strike and there was one other matelot on it. Not only that, we were two of only three people from the RN to attend in the last three years. Put simply, we need knights in the towers or we're fucked.

Honestly, I can't count the amount of times we revisit this topic to explain why, I also can't be arsed to do it all again.

The AB point by the way was an example.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mikh

MIA
No Slight taken Monty, and I am 20 yeas, 1 month out of the loop, and yes jointery is a major factor, but the RN is the sea based arm of the armed forces, it should be about how we are able to project power, whether it be surface, sub surface, air arm or the RM. It seems we are being blinkered by the current global climate, with the IS/ISIS & Middle East, historically too many times the armed forces have been reduced just before they were needed, and the RN seems to bear the brunt.

It takes time to build a ship, it takes time to train the crews, we no longer have the ship building capability to build more than a few hulls at a time, tanks, aircraft, artillery etc can be produce on a production line, our current production capability for all the land and air based equipment can be increased in less time than it takes to get a ship built, this is the point that should be hammered home to the powers that be.
 
G

guestm

Guest
No Slight taken Monty, and I am 20 yeas, 1 month out of the loop, and yes jointery is a major factor, but the RN is the sea based arm of the armed forces, it should be about how we are able to project power, whether it be surface, sub surface, air arm or the RM. It seems we are being blinkered by the current global climate, with the IS/ISIS & Middle East, historically too many times the armed forces have been reduced just before they were needed, and the RN seems to bear the brunt.

It takes time to build a ship, it takes time to train the crews, we no longer have the ship building capability to build more than a few hulls at a time, tanks, aircraft, artillery etc can be produce on a production line, our current production capability for all the land and air based equipment can be increased in less time than it takes to get a ship built, this is the point that should be hammered home to the powers that be.

You're not getting it. In fact you're missing the point entirely.

We can't hammer any points home without rank in the appropriate posts. This is why we need that ratio of officers.
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
I am worried about who has hijacked MLPs identity. HE's posting common sense and valuable useful points and there isn't a single hint of sexual frisson or goat porn to be seen.

Totally endorse MLPs view - the world has changed, the RN needs to play the game or watch as somehow the open goal of SDSR2015 becomes a 'how the feck did the Army get to keep 82000 while we lost 8 Type 23s'...
 
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