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Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending cuts"

Joint_Force_Harrier said:
Let the Crabs scap theirs and give the Navy 2 Front Line squadron and a training unit. "Oh just like at Yeovilton"!!!

A similar article was in the Telegraph a while back. Seriously, if the RAF do scrap their Harriers, what's stopping them (or some of them) from being handed over to the FAA? (Like they had to give the RAF their Phantoms and Buccaneers)
 

smoothbore

Lantern Swinger
Start_the_Buccaneer said:
Joint_Force_Harrier said:
Let the Crabs scap theirs and give the Navy 2 Front Line squadron and a training unit. "Oh just like at Yeovilton"!!!

A similar article was in the Telegraph a while back. Seriously, if the RAF do scrap their Harriers, what's stopping them (or some of them) from being handed over to the FAA? (Like they had to give the RAF their Phantoms and Buccaneers)

Errr, money, trained manpower.
 
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

This where the Treasury backs (it would be good if they did actually back them now and again) the 3 Services into 3 separate corners. Even though the respective CoSs should know better, it guarantees a significant amount of backstabbing. The residual “can do†attitude of the Services will, of course, cause the least upset to Parliament and the most damage to themselves.

The Harriers could become a Navy only asset but it’s as smoothbore said. Even transferring the machines into storage would cost money and the Air Force can’t transfer any if they are claiming it as a Saving. The earlier “saving†of centralising JFH in flat Midlandshire has now made moving the support infrastructure to YVL expensive.

Perhaps ACM Stirrup should do something useful and make an appointment for a frank and open interview with Aunty Betty. Even that could generate monumental wider problems, though.
 
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Passed-over_Loggie said:
This where the Treasury backs (it would be good if they did actually back them now and again) the 3 Services into 3 separate corners. Even though the respective CoSs should know better, it guarantees a significant amount of backstabbing. The residual “can do†attitude of the Services will, of course, cause the least upset to Parliament and the most damage to themselves.

The Harriers could become a Navy only asset but it’s as smoothbore said. Even transferring the machines into storage would cost money and the Air Force can’t transfer any if they are claiming it as a Saving. The earlier “saving†of centralising JFH in flat Midlandshire has now made moving the support infrastructure to YVL expensive.

Perhaps ACM Stirrup should do something useful and make an appointment for a frank and open interview with Aunty Betty. Even that could generate monumental wider problems, though.


The Crabs could just disband 1(F) and 4(AC) Squadron's along with half of 20(R) and there's is a massive saving, Allow NSW to break into two 801 and the other one (800) with a reduced 899 (20R). Half HMF output, keep it all at Cottesmore, shut down Wittering. The Senoir service has carrier air power and the sideways walking Cnuts can stop dripping about going on board!!!

Call Cottesmore RNAS Rutland/HMS ?

Sorted!!!
 

scouse

War Hero
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Roger that with 800 and 801 Squadrons :wink: :wink: :wink: Not so sure about 899 squadron Sea Vixen boys Though :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Joint_Force_Harrier said:
The Crabs could just disband 1(F) and 4(AC) Squadron's along with half of 20(R) and there's is a massive saving

Yes it is and that's what they are doing. Importantly, it is their saving and none of that money will find its way Senior Service-side. What we would then do is pick up the major part of the Cottesmore operating cost, if not all of it. Add to that the total"platform support" and training costs. We would gain an increase in costs and have to find even more savings to cover it. These things aren't that easy to "sort", unfortunately.
 
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Passed-over_Loggie said:
Joint_Force_Harrier said:
The Crabs could just disband 1(F) and 4(AC) Squadron's along with half of 20(R) and there's is a massive saving

Yes it is and that's what they are doing. Importantly, it is their saving and none of that money will find its way Senior Service-side. What we would then do is pick up the major part of the Cottesmore operating cost, if not all of it. Add to that the total"platform support" and training costs. We would gain an increase in costs and have to find even more savings to cover it. These things aren't that easy to "sort", unfortunately.

But surely disbanding two very overpopulated (and Self Important) crab squadrons will half the Harrier budget. Not as many aircraft needed. Sell the rest to India. The senior service could and always will cope on Half the Budget. Shutting down Wittering will be a big saving, 2 MT do not need an airfield!!!
Just an Idea?

Plus makes my Village a quieter place if Wittering closes. "NIMBY"
 

Magic_Mushroom

War Hero
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Even allowing for your own prejudices JFH, you really need to take a very large reality pill indeed.

At a time when all 3 services are facing unprecedented cuts, you are advocating the RN significantly increase their aviation budget?!!!!! As PoL intimates, your proposed savings are fundamentally flawed and would not be transferred to the RN.

What therefore do you suggest the Senior Service sacrifices to fund such an expansion?

Regards,
MM
 
I think it is just that time of year again when all the services start to worry about which part of their budget is going to be cut this year. The Pongos are worrying about lossing a few more regiments, and of course the RN is worrying about the carriers and all that entails. The Crabs though in their inimitable fashion are as usual trying to get all the cuts applied to the other two services so all those jet jockies can have something big hot and throbbimng between their legs.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Put simply the RAF are doing two things by threatening to axe their Harriers, yet strangely justifying the need to keep a non-combatant flight of aircraft painted a fetching shade of red:

Most importantly their squadrons won't have to serve on carriers.

Secondly they could then argue that there's no point investing in new carriers because the Navy has managed without fixed wing aircraft.

The point that's blithely ignored is that the US Navy are providing carrier-based air cover in Afghanistan at present. Whilst the air force may not like the fact that mobile airfields are infinately more flexible on a global basis (ie: No need for a 16000 mile round trip to miss a target with less than 33% of the initial intended strike capacity, with dubious potential repeatability), the fact is that the troops on the ground are rather partial to a spot of air to ground support when it's required.
 
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Maxi_77. I suspect that we won’t need to worry about the Carriers (CVF, as was). What we need to worry about is the DD/FF force and the minor war vessels; and quite likely, the CVSs. Even the thickest of brown jobs must realise that the Carriers are actually more useful to them than they are to us. There again, their CLF thinks wars with other Nations is a thing of history and he’ll be “invited†in for COIN Ops.

Ninja_Stoker. I realise that it’s bad form to let the truth spoil a good dit; but Aunty Betty fields the Reds for almost bugger all. British Industry funds most of their costs. Chop the Reds and save sod all.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Passed-over_Loggie said:
Ninja_Stoker. I realise that it’s bad form to let the truth spoil a good dit; but Aunty Betty fields the Reds for almost bugger all. British Industry funds most of their costs. Chop the Reds and save sod all.


Really? So sponsorship pays the 10 pilots & 150 groundcrew wages, bought the 10 aircraft & pays for their upkeep too? I'm impressed.
 

Magic_Mushroom

War Hero
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

There are few things sadder than an individual who identifies the cost of everything but the value of nothing, particularly when he’s a mod.

I wonder how many children are inspired to join the RAF (and possibly even the FAA and AAC) after seeing the RAF Aerobatic Team? Their cost is more than outweighed by their recruitment, PR and foreign prestige value. The same argument goes for Army public duties, RN field gun teams and for that matter AFCO and schools presentation team staff.

Ninja_Stoker said:
… mobile airfields are infinately more flexible on a global basis...

Carrier air and land based air is complementary and neither is superior to the other. For every positive and negative about land based Air Power, I could identify a similar point for carrier assets. ‘Mobile airfields’ are most certainly not ‘infinately’ [sic] more flexible, so perhaps we could move on and stop the pre-pubescent willy waving.

Passed-over_Loggie said:
Even the thickest of brown jobs must realise that the Carriers are actually more useful to them than they are to us.

Nope. In fact I’ve heard a very experienced Army major (the recipient of a leading gallantry award on ops) seriously question why the RN could not be disbanded for all the relevance it has to current ops.

The RN needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Gucci CGI of CVF with cat/trap (!!!!) F-35 ops on the front cover of your latest Aviate magazine do not help your case. CGI of CVF with a deck load of Chinook and Apache may just strike closer to home for the average squaddie.

CVF and F-35 is not a no-brainer; neither for a squaddie on the front line and certainly not for a Treasury official involved in the forthcoming SDR. Focus on getting CVF and F-35, period. Stop focusing on getting F-35C and E-2D!!!!

Regards,
MM
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Magic_Mushroom said:
There are few things sadder than an individual who identifies the cost of everything but the value of nothing, particularly when he’s a mod.

Well done for showing your true colours & rising to the rather obvious bait :lol:

There are few things sadder than an individual who identifies the cost of everything but the value of nothing, particularly when he’s a misinformed dick that tries to appear intellectually superior.

Deary me MM, there goes your credibility. The truth hurts sometimes, doesn't it?

Regards.

NS
 

Magic_Mushroom

War Hero
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Ninja_Stoker said:
Well done for showing your true colours & rising to the bait :lol:

There are few things sadder than an individual who identifies the cost of everything but the value of nothing, particularly when he’s a misinformed dick that tries to appear intellectually superior.

Deary me MM, there goes your credibility.

I never attempt to appear intellectually superior Ninja; if that is how I have come across on this post then I apologise.

Banter (from both ways) is easily misinterpreted when written rather than spoken over a beer. As far as my credibility goes, I’m happy to be judged on all of my posts rather than one and I think you’ll find plenty of occasions when I’ve defended RN (and indeed Army) capabilities against my own Service.

Regards,
MM
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Magic_Mushroom said:
I never attempt to appear intellectually superior Ninja; if that is how I have come across on this post then I apologise.

Apology accepted.
 
Re: Daily Mail "Harrier jets could be scrapped in spending c

Magic_Mushroom said:
Carrier air and land based air is complementary and neither is superior to the other.


Haven't there been several instances in the past of carrier air groups operating completely independently of direct land-based air support? (Due to the latter being incapable of doing so)

e.g. Falklands, Korea, British Honduras/Guatemala crisis, Japan (WWII)
 
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