Cuts & Stuff (MoD Deny / Mitigate)

ET(WE)Sutton

Lantern Swinger
This Is Off The Navy Site

Thought You Mite Want To Read It...


Navy 'Promotion Freeze' and Navy 'Cuts'
It has been reported that Promotion for Royal Navy officers is to be frozen in cost cutting measures. The Royal Navy is working hard to be more efficient in how we command, manage and support sailors; so that we can focus more of our resources on the front line. As a result, we have warned our people that there may a temporary reduction in a few promotion opportunities, particularly for senior officers in headquarters posts.

It has also been widely reported that the Royal Navy may suffer heavy cuts and lose a number of warships (ranging from six to half the fleet, depending on which newspaper you read) as a result of a spending review. The MOD routinely reviews all Defence capabilities to ensure resources are directed where our front line Armed Forces need them most. This may mean increases for some areas and decreases for others. But we are some way from any decisions and the MOD currently has no plans to cut the numbers of Destroyers and Frigates.


so acording to them its nothing to do with having to save money.
 
Re: Cuts & Stuff

Wow, considering the ammount of time these stories have been flying arounf that is quitew fast for a response for DPRN or whatever flashy title they have these days.

From the style (I was going to say tone but that would have been a pun too far) it would seem to have come straight from labour party HQ.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
As this covers issues in two threads, I'll not merge this new one.
The link was your job Pooley. :wink:

MoD Damage Limitation Exercise

But we are some way from any decisions and the MOD currently has no plans to cut the numbers of Destroyers and Frigates.


That means either everyone else has jumped the gun or there are no plans 'currently' (at the time of writing) but don't unpack your kitbag if you have been appointed/drafted to the following:

You are right Peter, it does sound like Neu Arbeit speak rather than a morale saver from 1SL. Let's hope he has something positive to say and soon.
 
Ahh but are they getting around the whole "cut" thing by calling ships that are at "reduced readiness" (mothballed) STILL part of the flotilla? That way there have been NO cuts, as far as the general public can be told.

As for the promotion stoppage, we all know just what "efficiency" really means, don't we.
 

F169

War Hero
It needs an MP to ask the Minister: "If, as reported on the official Royal Navy website, it is true there are no plans to cut any frigates and destroyers in your department?" If he says "yes" he will later have to resign for lying to the House..............unless, of course no-one has been drawing up any plans for the last couple of years to meet treasury demands. If he says "no"........
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
Communicator, good question and good point but off topic. If you want to grill Pooley ( which is fair) move to PM.

Some posts deleted (own included) now that the message has, I hope, been received.
 
F169 said:
It needs an MP to ask the Minister: "If, as reported on the official Royal Navy website, it is true there are no plans to cut any frigates and destroyers in your department?" If he says "yes" he will later have to resign for lying to the House..............unless, of course no-one has been drawing up any plans for the last couple of years to meet treasury demands. If he says "no"........
F169,

Were an MP to ask the question:

Is it true, as reported on the official Royal Navy website, that there are no plans to cut any frigates and, or destroyers in your Department?

The Minister could still get off the hook. It all depends upon how you define the word "cut". If you intend to get your local MP to ask a question is is vital that you phrase it as precisely as possible giving no semantic room for manouvre - or the civil service will exploit it. The art is to ask a series of simple probing questions to which vague or ambigious replies cannot be given. If your MP sends your letter off to the Minister, expect a delay in the reply and a non-committal reply - which will not answer your question. Ideally your MP will be called to ask the question during the Defence Questions, though the ideal time is during a Select Committee investigation when cross questioning is possible.

Steve.
 

dt018a9667

War Hero
F169 said:
It needs an MP to ask the Minister: "If, as reported on the official Royal Navy website, it is true there are no plans to cut any frigates and destroyers in your department?" If he says "yes" he will later have to resign for lying to the House..............unless, of course no-one has been drawing up any plans for the last couple of years to meet treasury demands. If he says "no"........




With this lots tack record do you really expect them to resign over the minor offence (in their eyes) of misleading the house and the nation?
 

F169

War Hero
'Undecipherable Hieroglyphic' - In the House there is still a big difference between misleading and lying but I agree your are right to be sceptical.
 
Nothing new here - I saw the writing on the wall a few years back - the major influence in the RA-3 issue on age 50 retirement, ie get in zone at age 47 and fall out of zone straight away!! Plus join the RN do well, try and get to sea and funny old thing, no ships left!!!
 
The real problem is that however well the question is phrased the answer will be that there is no plan to do the dirty deed, it may be one of the options under consideration, but it is not decided
 

Clouseau

Banned
What is so new about all this? it's been discussed ad nauseum. The reported cuts were just the usual round of "Options" sensationalised by a press that will use any ammunition it can to bash the government with. Some of the options will be taken, some of them wont. The fact of the matter is that we have a share of the MOD budget which has to be prioritised against current and possible future ops and requirements. Coupled to this it has to be balanced with due regard to an over-heated equipment plan.

We are engaged in 2 linked land-centric campaigns. Guess where the priority lies?! Doesn't take a rocket scientist to explain it does it?

As regards to the report on promotions - The DT report was plain wrong (as discussed in other threads) and the rebuttal shown here lays out the facts.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
As regards to the report on promotions - The DT report was plain wrong (as discussed in other threads) and the rebuttal shown here lays out the facts.
Funny how we slag off the media for being ill informed and / or making stuff up but when it suits us, we quote them verbatim, take it as gospel and get superheated and they turn out to appear wrong.

The denial/rebuttal does sound a bit 'spinny' but it may become appropriate for RR to collectively suck back.

Has the DT sucked back yet?
 
Seadog said:
As regards to the report on promotions - The DT report was plain wrong (as discussed in other threads) and the rebuttal shown here lays out the facts.
Funny how we slag off the media for being ill informed and / or making stuff up but when it suits us, we quote them verbatim, take it as gospel and get superheated and they turn out to appear wrong.

The denial/rebuttal does sound a bit 'spinny' but it may become appropriate for RR to collectively suck back.

Has the DT sucked back yet?
All very true but on the other hand it has been pretty common for these strories to pop out be denied very much as they have been this time and then surprise surprise they end up as the prefered options a few months later.

I for one would be delighted if you are correct and perhaps instead they announce the building of 10 new frigates, mind you it is always possible that pigs might fly too.
 

noemis

Lantern Swinger
Seadog said:
As regards to the report on promotions - The DT report was plain wrong (as discussed in other threads) and the rebuttal shown here lays out the facts.
Funny how we slag off the media for being ill informed and / or making stuff up but when it suits us, we quote them verbatim, take it as gospel and get superheated and they turn out to appear wrong.

The denial/rebuttal does sound a bit 'spinny' but it may become appropriate for RR to collectively suck back.

Has the DT sucked back yet?
Hello Tony, is that you?
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
The fact of the matter is that we have a share of the MOD budget which has to be prioritised against current and possible future ops and requirements. Coupled to this it has to be balanced with due regard to an over-heated equipment plan.

We are engaged in 2 linked land-centric campaigns. Guess where the priority lies?! Doesn't take a rocket scientist to explain it does it?


Unless we expect to be engaged in these land-centric campaigns for the next four years, then there is little point raiding the STP and wrecking the readiness of the navy out to 2012 and beyond. It's too late to have any effect on the outcome of the land campaign. The equipment plan does have some elements of overheating in it (mainly Astute related), but most of the esclation is a consequence of MoD delaying decisions. Do they relaly expect the contractors to keep their design teams going without charging for it or for the price to suddenly drop?

The real problem is the sustained underfunding of defence ever since the arrival of the "peace dividend" with OfC. The fleet size has been continually cut, working practices streamlined "for efficiency savings", bases disposed of etc. So where's the fcuking money gone?
 

Clouseau

Banned
Not_a_boffin said:
The fact of the matter is that we have a share of the MOD budget which has to be prioritised against current and possible future ops and requirements. Coupled to this it has to be balanced with due regard to an over-heated equipment plan.

We are engaged in 2 linked land-centric campaigns. Guess where the priority lies?! Doesn't take a rocket scientist to explain it does it?


Unless we expect to be engaged in these land-centric campaigns for the next four years, then there is little point raiding the STP and wrecking the readiness of the navy out to 2012 and beyond. It's too late to have any effect on the outcome of the land campaign. The equipment plan does have some elements of overheating in it (mainly Astute related), but most of the esclation is a consequence of MoD delaying decisions. Do they relaly expect the contractors to keep their design teams going without charging for it or for the price to suddenly drop?

The real problem is the sustained underfunding of defence ever since the arrival of the "peace dividend" with OfC. The fleet size has been continually cut, working practices streamlined "for efficiency savings", bases disposed of etc. So where's the fcuking money gone?
NHS, Education, Police, blah, blah

We've never had it so good..........
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Not quite. What I mean is that all these previous cuts should have reduced the cost base, such that even the flat-lining defence budget should not be under this sort of pressure. Perhaps it's because we are fighting two wars and using STP funding (with a very meagre supplemental from Fat Gordon) to do it.......

I fully agree that ludicrous amounts have been shovelled at the NHS, eddukashun and the bizzies, but thats from a different pot.
 
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