Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chintz

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by kinross_special, Aug 1, 2008.

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  1. Er, anyone seen this?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/01/defence.military

    I know it's the Guardian, but if he's even half right (and Robert Fox is from time to time) then we might just as well pack up and go home. Get rid of all light helicopters by 2014? No Future Lynx OR ANYTHING TO REPLACE IT? And all because the RAF wants to get control of the Apaches.

    Probably won't happen, at least I hope to God it's wrong, but if the T45s end up running around without ASW capability of any kind then the mind boggles......
     
  2. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Light Blue manoeuvering... they are feeling left out and so are doing what they do best....
     
  3. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi

    Crab Air have no valid case for providing any Helo lift…

    All the RAF's Chinnooks and Merlins, (they can scrap those Pumas in place), should be transferred to the AAC.


    As for FLynx? I can see no case for that thing. The thoroughly proven UH-60 Blackhawk and SH-60 Seahawk can be bought OTS for far less money.
     
  4. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi

    Crabs getting their punch in first. On the defensive because finally they realise that The RN and Army could work without them. FACT
     
  5. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi

    O_S, agree with you but that's not on the table either.

    What is being suggested is we just don't have helicopters.
     
  6. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi

    also, Blackhawks wouldn't go in the hanger of a 22 or 23 (don't know about 45 or Seahawk). So, unless we rebuild the back end of all our ships....
     
  7. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi


    You can get a chuffing great Merlin into the arse end of a 22 or 23!



    We are talking about the same Blackhawk derivative, aren't we?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi

    Fair one, its been a long, long week :thumright:
     
  9. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi


    Same here… thank God it's POETS day. :thumright:
     
  10. Feckin Crabs,

    years ago they tried to say that they would have to supply piloting for the Pongoes as the new aircraft, "were too complicated for mere non commisioned occifers".

    Same ol same ol. Why do we have an Air farce, the FAA can do both Land and sea but the Crabs only do Land..........so wtf are they there for??
     
  11. The idea of the Crabs getting rid of the FAA has been around since Lord Trenchard its nothing new, but as usual the Crabs get their oar in first.

    Lets not forget the classic crab line of "we can provide air cover over the fleet anywhere in the world" because they lost the nuclear deterent & the LABOUR govt fell for it hook, line & sinker, the Carrier programme was scrapped, also they didn't want the RN to have the SHAR.
    Imagine who many more ships & men we would have lost down south in 82, if they had gotten their way.
     
  12. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi

    That must be a garbled version of whatever was intended. The Army dialling up CAS is not the same as "manage the complexities of the modern air/land battle" and being tasked for that is part of the Air day (and night) job.

    I must agree that removing agility and mobility (Apache, Lynx and ancient Gazelle) from the Land formations just because it flies is a pretty bone argument. The Apache is, indeed, a complex and capable machine but is integral to Land operations. The Army may be tasking it too narrowly and is an argument to be sensibly made; but not to take the bloody A/C off them. As Army do use these machines as airborne Tanks/ARVs/APCs, the "operators" are effectively parts of the Battalions/Cav Squadrons deployed. The Army operators and maintainers do Army things accordingly; like living in hoochies and being ready to fight without their machines if needs be. I can't see the Air Force queuing up to do that. Anybody who has had experience of them contributing to the routine Ex CAPE PETREL at a certain windy place in the South Atlantic will know what I mean!

    The message has got to be from all 3 Services; the Budget is too small for what's needed. They should not be sniping at each other trying to steal rice bowls. It would also be rather nice if ACM Stirrup would show some leadership and stand up to MoD Centre, the Government and the traitorous chisellers in the Treasury.
     
  13. I've seen numerous "scrap the air force" threads here and on Arrse, and I've always tried to take a more moderate view.

    But helicopters have no value beyond direct and proximal support of the land battle. None. Things like strategic lift, air defence - even CAS, to some degree - I think are better staying light blue.

    But will the boys - and they must be children, with an attitude like this - at Crab Central please give up with the "if it flies, it's ours" mentality. It's boring and unhelpful. There's no doubt that there isn't enough money in the defence pot, but this won't help.

    Here's a thought. If the Army (and presumably the FAA, although it's not explicit) don't have the know-how to run their specialist part of the air battle, then in what universe does the air commander have a scooby about what's going on on the ground? I'm guessing the next step in this little piece of empire-building is to bin Army and Marine FACs and replace them with the light blue kind too.

    The tactical land battle is a green responsibility. Simple as. Often with useful and much appreciated help from the different shades of blue, but neither CAS nor NGS ever won a war.
     
  14. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi

     
  15. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi


    The problem Crab Air have is they are all dressed up for WWIII but nobody came… Now, they are furiously casting around for a mission and purpose but don;t want to change their core values and equipment roster.

    Question for the sideways walking ones… You've got a shitload of very expensive and gucchied up Tornado GR4's. Why don't those sacred cows ever go downtown over Afghanistan and bomb sand people and their goats?
     
  16. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi

    Why dont the AAC and FAA just absorb the RAF? Suerly that would be the best thing t obe done if they keep dripping on.
     
  17. I have to wonder how many of you "non wafu" types are defending us ........ thanks in anticipation ......
     

  18. Heres another thought, if the crabs want to take over the aircraft from the other two services, fine, let them.

    BUT, that would mean that the entire RAF regiment would have to be moved over to the British Army, afterall if the AAC don't understand anything about aviation then what does the RAF know about fighting on land?

    Also, if they are really so keen to take over flying responsibilities from the FAA thats fine also, it just means that JPA will have to start issuing brylcreem boys with draft orders to ships and BSSC courses.

    I think in a short space of time our crabby friends would start to object when they found they were swopping hotels for the Zoo on a Type22 or the stokers mess on a T23!!!
     
  19. Re: Curtains for the Fleet Air Arm? and not green/yellow chi

    Dunno, Oily ... you're the apparent tri-Service expert on all things Air, so you tell us.

    With facts, of course, just to make it a little harder than just gobbing off ;-)
     
  20. Talking of green and yellow chintz. I noticed it was still very much in evidence on the Enterprise, despite it being pretty new - Laura Ashtray where are you, should have watched those stairs love!
     

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