Current security alert

imom1406

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
I take your point, but the one thing all the terrorist activities and atrocities have in common, is radical islam.....sorry but it is a fact. I'm not saying everyone is a terrorist, but those who believe that the 12th prophet will only appear from the well in Iran after the destruction of the infidel and armagheddon is a strong belief help by many Shi'ite muslims, Amedinajad for one.
More people have been killed in the UK by Christian terrorists in the last 50 years than by Muslim ones. Your memory is short. More people have been killed in Europe by non Muslim terrorists in the past 50 years than have been killed by Muslims. How many people were killed in Oklahoma by a US fundamentalist. The capacity to enact terror is in no way restricted to radical muslims, just think how many died under Pol Pot.


imom1406 said:
A faction of the religion encourages the death of martyrs in the struggle. There is no leader in Islam who is denouncing this view.....so in effect, it is becoming the received shi'ite islamic view.
How many Muslim leaders have you listened to, all of the UK ones I have heard speeking over the past few years have been wholly against terror. One of the real problems is that the UK press in general only print the litany of hate from from the radical clerics, they don't bother with the mainstream leaders because there is no shoch horror fear headline to be had. How about from the BBC today

The Muslim community in the UK must "admit it has a problem" with extremism, a Muslim leader has said. Haras Rafiq, of the Sufi Muslim Council, said the government must also give more support to those trying to root out extremism.

Peter[/quote]

I try ...unlike many (i don't include you here) to listen to as many views as i can, and you are right, the Sufi Muslim council has said "like alcoholics we must admit the problem" which is very encourageing. However it is the Muslim Council of Great Britain that speaks for the mosques, and although they do say there is a problem, they qualify it by talking about our foriegn policy. I tend to take a more global view where the hotbed of radical islam is being promoted by the likes of Ahmadinajad (apologies if i mis-spelt) in Iran. And he is a promoter of the Mahdi which is the cornerstone of Shi'ite Islam.

Only after great suffering and death and destruction, will the Mahdi re-appear...Armourdinnerjacket, is the main driver and financier of radicalism and he is an islamic state leader.

So my point is, you canot rely on what parties say in the UK, nice though it is, this is a problem promoted globally and has to be understood in that context.
 

WarMonger

War Hero
Im not being cycnical but they are just words, I wonder if he organised a series of rallies all over the UK like the Stop The War movements etc to denounce extremism and condemning violence how many would bother to turn up....just as I cant remember the last time I saw a peace rally being held in Damascus, Tehran, etc etc...Unfortunately the perception is far more powerful than the truth..!!
 
Lingyai,
Your racist remarks are getting tedious. Time to get out your "Oxygen Thief" badge again ???[/quote]
What racist? Like those who damn all the men women and children who are not followers of islam? The ones who call us infidels because we don't believe their backward flintstones religion? The kind of racist who grows up enjoying all the perks a western lifestyle offers in middle class UK suburbia only to don the robes, grow the beard and launch attacks on his countymen and women? This is why I am having trouble with them, all I ever here is there are so many innocent peace loving muslims, that is exaxtly what the fathers, sons and wives say about their peace loving normal happy family member that just goes to work one day as a school teacher and blows up a train or a bus! And what are the peace lovers doing to help? This vile cancer is speading out of control, kids we went to school with are hatching plots to blow us up. What do we do? When do you stop being tolerant? I am fed up with it. I could hardly be caled a racist (I am not going to bother telling you why, that's my business) but if I seem that way it is because I am a man who is being made to hate these sick minded fools and their poxy Jihad. If only they could be met on a battlefield, but as can be seen in Lebanon, they fire their rockets and hide amongst their own women and kids and use their deaths as martyrdom. The death of these women and kids upsets me, but the death of the extremists makes me happy. Sorry but I refuse to sugar coat it. My personal opinion, that's all.
 
imom1406 said:
[

I try ...unlike many (i don't include you here) to listen to as many views as i can, and you are right, the Sufi Muslim council has said "like alcoholics we must admit the problem" which is very encourageing. However it is the Muslim Council of Great Britain that speaks for the mosques, and although they do say there is a problem, they qualify it by talking about our foriegn policy. I tend to take a more global view where the hotbed of radical islam is being promoted by the likes of Ahmadinajad (apologies if i mis-spelt) in Iran. And he is a promoter of the Mahdi which is the cornerstone of Shi'ite Islam.

Only after great suffering and death and destruction, will the Mahdi re-appear...Armourdinnerjacket, is the main driver and financier of radicalism and he is an islamic state leader.

So my point is, you canot rely on what parties say in the UK, nice though it is, this is a problem promoted globally and has to be understood in that context.
I am not surprised that some of the leaders comment on our foreign policy, there are times when I find it objectionable too, and I do think there is a place for a dialogue on that subject to at least show that the UK is not actually making a crusade against Islam (I don't believe this is UK policy but I can see how some view it that way). Equally to tar all mulims with the extremist Shiite brush is wrong, many Shiites don't follow those extreme teachings any way, never mind the rest of Islam. Your freind Mr Dinner jacket is an elected leaderof his country, and yes his assorted mutterings are not very freindly to most of the rest of the world but his position at home is in fact not all that robust and much of his actions and ranting is for home consumption. I for one would be happy to see him and his supporters taken down a peg of two, but don't see kicking sh*t out of Muslims somewhere else like the UK or Lebanon asbeing a particularly good way of doing it, rather such actions actually make his ranting all the more believable to those who may support him

Peter
 

imom1406

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
imom1406 said:
[

I try ...unlike many (i don't include you here) to listen to as many views as i can, and you are right, the Sufi Muslim council has said "like alcoholics we must admit the problem" which is very encourageing. However it is the Muslim Council of Great Britain that speaks for the mosques, and although they do say there is a problem, they qualify it by talking about our foriegn policy. I tend to take a more global view where the hotbed of radical islam is being promoted by the likes of Ahmadinajad (apologies if i mis-spelt) in Iran. And he is a promoter of the Mahdi which is the cornerstone of Shi'ite Islam.

Only after great suffering and death and destruction, will the Mahdi re-appear...Armourdinnerjacket, is the main driver and financier of radicalism and he is an islamic state leader.

So my point is, you canot rely on what parties say in the UK, nice though it is, this is a problem promoted globally and has to be understood in that context.
I am not surprised that some of the leaders comment on our foreign policy, there are times when I find it objectionable too, and I do think there is a place for a dialogue on that subject to at least show that the UK is not actually making a crusade against Islam (I don't believe this is UK policy but I can see how some view it that way). Equally to tar all mulims with the extremist Shiite brush is wrong, many Shiites don't follow those extreme teachings any way, never mind the rest of Islam. Your freind Mr Dinner jacket is an elected leaderof his country, and yes his assorted mutterings are not very freindly to most of the rest of the world but his position at home is in fact not all that robust and much of his actions and ranting is for home consumption. I for one would be happy to see him and his supporters taken down a peg of two, but don't see kicking sh*t out of Muslims somewhere else like the UK or Lebanon asbeing a particularly good way of doing it, rather such actions actually make his ranting all the more believable to those who may support him

Peter
I don't tar all muslims with the same brush, i don't advocate kicking the Sh*t out of anyone, what i want to do is ensure that the true motivations of Jihad are exposed and it is everybody's responsibility to work to change perceptions. sadly the only community that many dissaffected extremists belong to that have any influence over them is the Islamic community.

No Jihadi is ever going to listen to me and my rantings, i'm an unbeliver and damned anyway, so my point all the way through is that true leadership within the Islamic communities to rebut the Jihadi cause is really the only way forward.
 
The back room staff in and around Heathrow for example, including baggage handlers , cleaners etc. are from islamic/asian backgrounds.

After the London tube bombing it was stop time at Liverpool airport security at the front was either asian or eastern european. Who employed that lot is anybodies guess.

MICHAEL O'LEARY must be rubbing his hands all the way to the bank now we have to shove everything in the hold at five quid a throw.

So can I carry my super whooper camera on board or is it left to the tender loving care of the scousers on the apron. Mind most of those are now Polish.
 
imom1406 said:
I don't tar all muslims with the same brush, i don't advocate kicking the Sh*t out of anyone, what i want to do is ensure that the true motivations of Jihad are exposed and it is everybody's responsibility to work to change perceptions. sadly the only community that many dissaffected extremists belong to that have any influence over them is the Islamic community.

No Jihadi is ever going to listen to me and my rantings, i'm an unbeliver and damned anyway, so my point all the way through is that true leadership within the Islamic communities to rebut the Jihadi cause is really the only way forward.
You may not intend to tar all with the same brush, but it is easy to take that meaning from what you have said. There are plenty of reports of Muslim groups working against the extremists, banning them from mosques and mobilising their youth groups, if you look for them. These reports can be difficult to find as such stories do not grab the headlines. Just think the present operation was inteligence led, where did that intelligence come from, Muslims almost certainly. I think the general Muslim community is catching on to the 'not in my mame' concept far faster than the Catholics picked up that theme in NI. Mind you this may be bcause so far the muslim extremist groups have not attempted to rule the Muslim communities the way the IRA did in NI so there is not the same threat of punishment squads for those who do inform.

Peter
 

imom1406

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
imom1406 said:
I don't tar all muslims with the same brush, i don't advocate kicking the Sh*t out of anyone, what i want to do is ensure that the true motivations of Jihad are exposed and it is everybody's responsibility to work to change perceptions. sadly the only community that many dissaffected extremists belong to that have any influence over them is the Islamic community.

No Jihadi is ever going to listen to me and my rantings, i'm an unbeliver and damned anyway, so my point all the way through is that true leadership within the Islamic communities to rebut the Jihadi cause is really the only way forward.
You may not intend to tar all with the same brush, but it is easy to take that meaning from what you have said. There are plenty of reports of Muslim groups working against the extremists, banning them from mosques and mobilising their youth groups, if you look for them. These reports can be difficult to find as such stories do not grab the headlines. Just think the present operation was inteligence led, where did that intelligence come from, Muslims almost certainly. I think the general Muslim community is catching on to the 'not in my mame' concept far faster than the Catholics picked up that theme in NI. Mind you this may be bcause so far the muslim extremist groups have not attempted to rule the Muslim communities the way the IRA did in NI so there is not the same threat of punishment squads for those who do inform.

Peter
Another example of how the Islamic community is not helping their case, in a meeting with Ruth (poisoned dwarf) Kelly yesterday, representatives have asked that Sharia Law be used for family disputes. Can you see the Daily Mail and Sun headlines!!

Most Muslims are decent law abiding people. And yes some do get active in the drive to rid the community of extremism. And some serve on interfaith groups, even trying to work with moderate Jewish groups, but sadly these groups are not large enough or loud enough, maybe it is a function of fear or just general political malaise we see throughout society.

I also admit our foreign policy has a lot to be desired, but we sewed these seeds after WW1. But we are where we are. And the only voice that will ever be heard is a muslim one.

The other huge problem is the flavours and variations of Islam, sunni, shu'ite, sufi....there are as many if not more than flavours of christianity, so there is no leader to say what is right and what is wrong in Islam. I know everyone says that the Koran is all about peace and love, and i'm sure it is. But there are many different interpretations of it to achieve the ends of various community leaders.

We all love moderate muslims, because they belive in Justice and peace. Maybe my real point is that the radical Jihadist should be treated as a different religion....sadly they still call themselves muslim...and see us as the Infidel.

Moderate Islam is the only community that would ever be able to reason with them, and they need support to do so. But trying to achieve their own political ends (Sharia Law) as payment for services worries me.
 
The worrying thing is that this sleazy government will bow to the radicals wishes !

I worked in the Mid East, and was there during the Iran/Iraq conflict in 80s, and GW1 in 1990/1 as a civ employee. even then the radical elements were causing concern to their own government, but this was hushed up because their government didn't want unrest to be seen by insiders let alone outsiders.
Many of the Muslims I worked with did interpret the Qu'ran as peaceful, but there were elements who read it as permission to cause havoc among the 'unbelievers' - it seems to me that some of them in this so-called 'Community' who wish to enforce their own interpretations onto all others.
 
imom1406 said:
Another example of how the Islamic community is not helping their case, in a meeting with Ruth (poisoned dwarf) Kelly yesterday, representatives have asked that Sharia Law be used for family disputes. Can you see the Daily Mail and Sun headlines!!

Most Muslims are decent law abiding people. And yes some do get active in the drive to rid the community of extremism. And some serve on interfaith groups, even trying to work with moderate Jewish groups, but sadly these groups are not large enough or loud enough, maybe it is a function of fear or just general political malaise we see throughout society.

I also admit our foreign policy has a lot to be desired, but we sewed these seeds after WW1. But we are where we are. And the only voice that will ever be heard is a muslim one.

The other huge problem is the flavours and variations of Islam, sunni, shu'ite, sufi....there are as many if not more than flavours of christianity, so there is no leader to say what is right and what is wrong in Islam. I know everyone says that the Koran is all about peace and love, and i'm sure it is. But there are many different interpretations of it to achieve the ends of various community leaders.

We all love moderate muslims, because they belive in Justice and peace. Maybe my real point is that the radical Jihadist should be treated as a different religion....sadly they still call themselves muslim...and see us as the Infidel.

Moderate Islam is the only community that would ever be able to reason with them, and they need support to do so. But trying to achieve their own political ends (Sharia Law) as payment for services worries me.
But why the hang up on Sharia Law for family matters, Sharia Law is not just about beheading stoning and amputation it covers all aspects of daily life for Muslims. After all there are already 3 types of family law in the UK, it is different in Scotland and NI. I have personal experience of that trying to get pension information from an English pension fund who could not understand what and why I needed it for a divorce in Scotland. I can see no problem with Sharia Law principles being used to settle family disputes when all parties agree.

You cannot lump all Muslims together just as you cannot lump all Christians or even Jews together, and you cannot even lump all of one sect together just as you cannot lump all C of E together as an example. The reality is that most people whatever their religion or creed or origin are honest, decent folk just trying to make the best of their lives.

Peter
 

imom1406

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
imom1406 said:
Another example of how the Islamic community is not helping their case, in a meeting with Ruth (poisoned dwarf) Kelly yesterday, representatives have asked that Sharia Law be used for family disputes. Can you see the Daily Mail and Sun headlines!!

Most Muslims are decent law abiding people. And yes some do get active in the drive to rid the community of extremism. And some serve on interfaith groups, even trying to work with moderate Jewish groups, but sadly these groups are not large enough or loud enough, maybe it is a function of fear or just general political malaise we see throughout society.

I also admit our foreign policy has a lot to be desired, but we sewed these seeds after WW1. But we are where we are. And the only voice that will ever be heard is a muslim one.

The other huge problem is the flavours and variations of Islam, sunni, shu'ite, sufi....there are as many if not more than flavours of christianity, so there is no leader to say what is right and what is wrong in Islam. I know everyone says that the Koran is all about peace and love, and i'm sure it is. But there are many different interpretations of it to achieve the ends of various community leaders.

We all love moderate muslims, because they belive in Justice and peace. Maybe my real point is that the radical Jihadist should be treated as a different religion....sadly they still call themselves muslim...and see us as the Infidel.

Moderate Islam is the only community that would ever be able to reason with them, and they need support to do so. But trying to achieve their own political ends (Sharia Law) as payment for services worries me.
But why the hang up on Sharia Law for family matters, Sharia Law is not just about beheading stoning and amputation it covers all aspects of daily life for Muslims. After all there are already 3 types of family law in the UK, it is different in Scotland and NI. I have personal experience of that trying to get pension information from an English pension fund who could not understand what and why I needed it for a divorce in Scotland. I can see no problem with Sharia Law principles being used to settle family disputes when all parties agree.

You cannot lump all Muslims together just as you cannot lump all Christians or even Jews together, and you cannot even lump all of one sect together just as you cannot lump all C of E together as an example. The reality is that most people whatever their religion or creed or origin are honest, decent folk just trying to make the best of their lives.

Peter
Firstly...i did not mention beheading, stoning or any other Sharia punishment......I live in England under English Law. English Law and the legislative process is already over complex and creaking at the seams. How wouyld you legislate and police the law? More resources? A second Tier police force, even worse...more lawyers...it is an utterly ridiculous notion. And there is no mandate for it!! There is more of a mandate for an English parliament (but that is a whole new discussion).

I agree with you on the individuals desire for a decent safe and secure future for all and their children, i have spent the last 20 years working around the world and belive most people share basic common desires.

That is not thye case for a small minority of Jihadi's which is my point....you can re-read my last post if you like, but i wasn't lumping!!!
 
imom1406 said:
Firstly...i did not mention beheading, stoning or any other Sharia punishment......I live in England under English Law. English Law and the legislative process is already over complex and creaking at the seams. How wouyld you legislate and police the law? More resources? A second Tier police force, even worse...more lawyers...it is an utterly ridiculous notion. And there is no mandate for it!! There is more of a mandate for an English parliament (but that is a whole new discussion).!!!
I know you didn't mention beheading etc, but almost every comment from non Muslims about Sharia really is bound up in the more gruesome parts, and I suspect there was an undercurrent of that in your post, if there was not then perhaps you need to be clearer. Also the suggestion was only about FAMILY law nothing else so no new police forces probably little new legislation, and propbaly it would take some of the current workload off our family courts rather than impose it. Probably no more lawyers either there are plenty of Muslim lawyers as it is.

imom1406 said:
I agree with you on the individuals desire for a decent safe and secure future for all and their children, i have spent the last 20 years working around the world and belive most people share basic common desires.

That is not thye case for a small minority of Jihadi's which is my point....you can re-read my last post if you like, but i wasn't lumping!!!
But that is always the way your posts look to the outside world. It is not the fault of the average Muslim there are extremists.

Peter
 

imom1406

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
imom1406 said:
Firstly...i did not mention beheading, stoning or any other Sharia punishment......I live in England under English Law. English Law and the legislative process is already over complex and creaking at the seams. How wouyld you legislate and police the law? More resources? A second Tier police force, even worse...more lawyers...it is an utterly ridiculous notion. And there is no mandate for it!! There is more of a mandate for an English parliament (but that is a whole new discussion).!!!
I know you didn't mention beheading etc, but almost every comment from non Muslims about Sharia really is bound up in the more gruesome parts, and I suspect there was an undercurrent of that in your post, if there was not then perhaps you need to be clearer. Also the suggestion was only about FAMILY law nothing else so no new police forces probably little new legislation, and propbaly it would take some of the current workload off our family courts rather than impose it. Probably no more lawyers either there are plenty of Muslim lawyers as it is.

imom1406 said:
I agree with you on the individuals desire for a decent safe and secure future for all and their children, i have spent the last 20 years working around the world and belive most people share basic common desires.

That is not thye case for a small minority of Jihadi's which is my point....you can re-read my last post if you like, but i wasn't lumping!!!
But that is always the way your posts look to the outside world. It is not the fault of the average Muslim there are extremists.

Peter
It is also not the fault of the average Brit, that years of anti arab/islamic foriegn policy have led to the levels of hatred in the middle east against the Anglo American alliance, culminating in innocent people being blown to bits on Londons Tube and bus network. I think a little balance is in order, just like muslim are not one body politic and responsible for terrorism, neither are your fellow countrymen and women. But we are being lumped in with the great satan..
 

imom1406

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
imom1406 said:
Firstly...i did not mention beheading, stoning or any other Sharia punishment......I live in England under English Law. English Law and the legislative process is already over complex and creaking at the seams. How wouyld you legislate and police the law? More resources? A second Tier police force, even worse...more lawyers...it is an utterly ridiculous notion. And there is no mandate for it!! There is more of a mandate for an English parliament (but that is a whole new discussion).!!!
I know you didn't mention beheading etc, but almost every comment from non Muslims about Sharia really is bound up in the more gruesome parts, and I suspect there was an undercurrent of that in your post, if there was not then perhaps you need to be clearer. Also the suggestion was only about FAMILY law nothing else so no new police forces probably little new legislation, and propbaly it would take some of the current workload off our family courts rather than impose it. Probably no more lawyers either there are plenty of Muslim lawyers as it is.

imom1406 said:
I agree with you on the individuals desire for a decent safe and secure future for all and their children, i have spent the last 20 years working around the world and belive most people share basic common desires.

That is not thye case for a small minority of Jihadi's which is my point....you can re-read my last post if you like, but i wasn't lumping!!!
But that is always the way your posts look to the outside world. It is not the fault of the average Muslim there are extremists.

Peter
OK Peter, have just re-read some of my posts, and you are right it does come across in some of them that i hold swathes of Islam responsible. I don't and it wasn't my intention. So i apologise for that.

All i am interested in is geting a balanced debate and confronting some of the things most people either ignore, are not aware of, or are too PC to admit to! Too much on both sides of the debate is incorrect, or poorly reported to satisfy some particular editorial slant and that leads to opinions formed without knowledge....which is just downright dangerous.
 

imom1406

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
imom1406 said:
Firstly...i did not mention beheading, stoning or any other Sharia punishment......I live in England under English Law. English Law and the legislative process is already over complex and creaking at the seams. How wouyld you legislate and police the law? More resources? A second Tier police force, even worse...more lawyers...it is an utterly ridiculous notion. And there is no mandate for it!! There is more of a mandate for an English parliament (but that is a whole new discussion).!!!
I know you didn't mention beheading etc, but almost every comment from non Muslims about Sharia really is bound up in the more gruesome parts, and I suspect there was an undercurrent of that in your post, if there was not then perhaps you need to be clearer. Also the suggestion was only about FAMILY law nothing else so no new police forces probably little new legislation, and propbaly it would take some of the current workload off our family courts rather than impose it. Probably no more lawyers either there are plenty of Muslim lawyers as it is.

imom1406 said:
I agree with you on the individuals desire for a decent safe and secure future for all and their children, i have spent the last 20 years working around the world and belive most people share basic common desires.

That is not thye case for a small minority of Jihadi's which is my point....you can re-read my last post if you like, but i wasn't lumping!!!
But that is always the way your posts look to the outside world. It is not the fault of the average Muslim there are extremists.

Peter
One more point on the Sharia Law thing....I have no idea what Sharia Law entails, but if it were to become statute, it would require policing...it would be a law, what happens in a breach, is it civil or criminal, which courts are going to be used to resolve issues, who pays the court officials....it just seems there is a whole new layer of cost and complexity, which will further devide communities.....so the whole beheading nonsense never came into my head, we are mandated by European Law not to have a death penalty for starters....
 
imom1406 said:
OK Peter, have just re-read some of my posts, and you are right it does come across in some of them that i hold swathes of Islam responsible. I don't and it wasn't my intention. So i apologise for that.

All i am interested in is geting a balanced debate and confronting some of the things most people either ignore, are not aware of, or are too PC to admit to! Too much on both sides of the debate is incorrect, or poorly reported to satisfy some particular editorial slant and that leads to opinions formed without knowledge....which is just downright dangerous.
No problems

I agree trying to get people to look at the problem accurately is a big problem. I must admit that one of the things that worries me is all the talk of 'profiling' for security checks. I fear such a policy will be seen as racist and even more importantly flawed as in reality Muslims come in all shapes, sizes and colours. Every ethnic group has muslim members perhaps except the Inuit, and concentrating ones effort on middle easter, or asian types will quite certainly led the aparent BNP supporter through with disasterous results.

Peter
 

imom1406

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
imom1406 said:
OK Peter, have just re-read some of my posts, and you are right it does come across in some of them that i hold swathes of Islam responsible. I don't and it wasn't my intention. So i apologise for that.

All i am interested in is geting a balanced debate and confronting some of the things most people either ignore, are not aware of, or are too PC to admit to! Too much on both sides of the debate is incorrect, or poorly reported to satisfy some particular editorial slant and that leads to opinions formed without knowledge....which is just downright dangerous.
No problems

I agree trying to get people to look at the problem accurately is a big problem. I must admit that one of the things that worries me is all the talk of 'profiling' for security checks. I fear such a policy will be seen as racist and even more importantly flawed as in reality Muslims come in all shapes, sizes and colours. Every ethnic group has muslim members perhaps except the Inuit, and concentrating ones effort on middle easter, or asian types will quite certainly led the aparent BNP supporter through with disasterous results.

Peter
The largest Muslim state is Indonesia....a place i love by the way! so we are looking for anyone with a suntan and/or slanty eyes.....or a beard....or sandals!
 
imom1406 said:
...I live in England under English Law. English Law and the legislative process is already over complex and creaking at the seams. How would you legislate and police the law? More resources? A second Tier police force, even worse...more lawyers...it is an utterly ridiculous notion. And there is no mandate for it!! There is more of a mandate for an English parliament (but that is a whole new discussion)...
Before the Reformation this is what happened in the UK and throughout most of Europe, but it was Canon Law applied to the laity. This after all was the basis of the witchcraft trails and the Inquisition - the Church accused and the State punished, financed by the local community and the victims assets, which were confiscated. Today non-Christians in Britain are still subject to Canon Law in a more subtle way, enshrined in domestic law. Christian norms, as Blackstone observed, are the cornerstone of our legal system. Think of the Education Act 1948 or the Christian definition of marriage (grounded in Pagan Roman Law) as between one man and one woman and patriarchy. All there are the legal enforcement of Christian Law upon both Christian and non-believers alike.

Those Muslims advocating at applying Sharia jurisprudence in Family Law (& elsewhere) within their community have met with opposition within their own community where this idea remains highly controversial and is opposed by the majority. Sadly we focus on the demands of one section of the Muslim community. Incidentally I recall reading somewhere last year that Canada or a province in Canada was thinking of allowing Muslims to apply Sharia in a limited range of areas, subject to human rights and Canadian norms of justice. Can someone elaborate on this?

Steve.
 

imom1406

War Hero
Always_a_Civvy said:
imom1406 said:
...I live in England under English Law. English Law and the legislative process is already over complex and creaking at the seams. How would you legislate and police the law? More resources? A second Tier police force, even worse...more lawyers...it is an utterly ridiculous notion. And there is no mandate for it!! There is more of a mandate for an English parliament (but that is a whole new discussion)...
Before the Reformation this is what happened in the UK and throughout most of Europe, but it was Canon Law applied to the laity. This after all was the basis of the witchcraft trails and the Inquisition - the Church accused and the State punished, financed by the local community and the victims assets, which were confiscated. Today non-Christians in Britain are still subject to Canon Law in a more subtle way, enshrined in domestic law. Christian norms, as Blackstone observed, are the cornerstone of our legal system. Think of the Education Act 1948 or the Christian definition of marriage (grounded in Pagan Roman Law) as between one man and one woman and patriarchy. All there are the legal enforcement of Christian Law upon both Christian and non-believers alike.

Those Muslims advocating at applying Sharia jurisprudence in Family Law (& elsewhere) within their community ahve met with opposition within their own community where this idea remains highly controversial and is opposed by the majority. Sadly we focus on the demands of one section of the Muslim community.
Thanks for that....my main issues was operating what would be a two teir legal system....the likely cost and which would take precedent in a conflict..Muslim/non-muslim marriages....what would happen there....?

As our laws have been built on precedent over 2000 years, and they have changed slowly and organically, i just seem completely unworkable. I would have to be state funded, linked into our appeals system.....or you operate a state within a state...that works....just ask Lebanon!
 

Latest Threads

Top