I'm sure you weren't and thank you . My interest was in locating the AFO that insisted that substantive rates had to be met by non-substantive rates. Equal promotion on both arms. The Seaman Branch had CPO's who had advanced with their seamanship but who could still be seaman gunner instead of Gunnery Instructor rate or similar. Chief Petty Officers of the Seaman Branch at one stage needed no non-substantive rate. They wore two killick's anchors on their jacket collar instead of non-sub badges. I remember my father telling me about it so I imagine it was pre WW1 or thereabouts. I'd be most interested to read the AFO if I could find it with help from my children or grandchildren. They are very skilled at that sort of things as are most youngsters these daysI don't think anyone was doubting you Nippit, we were talking about the crown over the branch badge and when it was worn, as opposed to two stars (one above, one below).