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Cross-border immigration...

slim

War Hero
Looks good for the short term. Now what happens when the Spanish economy levels off or even declines. Will this new workforce be dependent on the Spanish state or will they migrate further North to take advantage of other states?
 

The_Wonderer

War Hero
slim said:
Looks good for the short term. Now what happens when the Spanish economy levels off or even declines. Will this new workforce be dependent on the Spanish state or will they migrate further North to take advantage of other states?

I'm guessing the latter
 

RNRAWBOD

Badgeman
well, if they get Spanish nationality, then yes they can. If not, they are restricted to Spain, and subject to their immigration rules...

You can make a fairly strong argument that this all strengthens economies so makes downturns less likely to occur, anyway.

And people tend not to drift to areas of unemployment anyway, especially if they cannot access social security benefits!!!


So all positive in my view.
 

The_Wonderer

War Hero
[And people tend not to drift to areas of unemployment anyway, especially if they cannot access social security benefits!!!



-you said it mate
 

slim

War Hero
The_Wonderer said:
[And people tend not to drift to areas of unemployment anyway, especially if they cannot access social security benefits!!!



-you said it mate

I think that accessing social security is a major part of many including me in not welcoming immigrants. If there is work for immigrants then fine, however I do not wish for my taxes to be used to support foreign non workers. To be fair I object to taxes being used to support UK non workers (well those who are able to work anyway)
 

The_Wonderer

War Hero
slim said:
The_Wonderer said:
[And people tend not to drift to areas of unemployment anyway, especially if they cannot access social security benefits!!!



-you said it mate

I think that accessing social security is a major part of many including me in not welcoming immigrants. If there is work for immigrants then fine, however I do not wish for my taxes to be used to support foreign non workers. To be fair I object to taxes being used to support UK non workers (well those who are able to work anyway)

Totally agree mate!

The need to take refuge is one thing, but I feel there should be no benefits available to them.
We would soon see how keen they would be to leave home then


INCOMING! :D
 

Six_and_a_Half

Lantern Swinger
You'll get no incoming from me, old chap. I am in complete agreement. Furthermore, I would suggest that new immigrants into this country should undergo a 'transitional phase' over a period of five or six years during which they would be in Great Britain on probation. They would not be eligible for unemployment benefits, and they could only rely on the NHS for emergencies only (unless they are willing to pay for treatment).

After a transitional phase, they should have learnt about the British way of life and how to integrate within it, and then may apply for full British citizenship.

By using a transitional phase, we could weed out the parasites from those immigrants who are and could be a benefit to our country.
 
I'm happy for as many immigrants to come to UK as wish to come, with the proviso that for every individual who so chooses, UK plc can choose someone to leave. Just think, an ideal opportunity to rid ourselves of the feral and feckless. For interim accommodation (having emptied the prisons of our flotsam) they could become transit accommodation for new citizens. Sadly that would be illegal, but I live in the wistful hope that all those living in the UK deserve to live here. We need a new Australia!
 
RNRAWBOD said:
well, if they get Spanish nationality, then yes they can. If not, they are restricted to Spain, and subject to their immigration rules...

You can make a fairly strong argument that this all strengthens economies so makes downturns less likely to occur, anyway.

And people tend not to drift to areas of unemployment anyway, especially if they cannot access social security benefits!!!


So all positive in my view.

Not quiet correct.

The following Countries are all part of the Schengen Agreement, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Holland, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden

You can move freely across borders with no checks. Spain to France or Spain to Portugal is normally conducted at 120kph with out even a single check point in sight. Anyone in Spain can move on to these other states with no further checks as an assumption is made that you are in any of these states you are there legally.

They all do of course carry photographic ID which is subject to random check if you bring yourself to attention. Until I obtained a Residence ID Card I had to carry my passport at all times.

Nutty
 

slim

War Hero
I think that many objections to immigration would be quashed if the public felt safe.
I would not object so strongly if laws were changed so that any immigrant committing either a serious criminal offence or was an habitual criminal was deported back to country of origin, regardless of any danger that they may face.
 

RNRAWBOD

Badgeman
Nutty said:
RNRAWBOD said:
well, if they get Spanish nationality, then yes they can. If not, they are restricted to Spain, and subject to their immigration rules...

You can make a fairly strong argument that this all strengthens economies so makes downturns less likely to occur, anyway.

And people tend not to drift to areas of unemployment anyway, especially if they cannot access social security benefits!!!


So all positive in my view.

Not quiet correct.

The following Countries are all part of the Schengen Agreement, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Holland, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden

You can move freely across borders with no checks. Spain to France or Spain to Portugal is normally conducted at 120kph with out even a single check point in sight. Anyone in Spain can move on to these other states with no further checks as an assumption is made that you are in any of these states you are there legally.

They all do of course carry photographic ID which is subject to random check if you bring yourself to attention. Until I obtained a Residence ID Card I had to carry my passport at all times.

Nutty

Tue you have free movemet - but you cannot LEGALLY work however.
 

slim

War Hero
RNRAWBOD said:
Nutty said:
RNRAWBOD said:
well, if they get Spanish nationality, then yes they can. If not, they are restricted to Spain, and subject to their immigration rules...

You can make a fairly strong argument that this all strengthens economies so makes downturns less likely to occur, anyway.

And people tend not to drift to areas of unemployment anyway, especially if they cannot access social security benefits!!!


So all positive in my view.

Not quiet correct.

The following Countries are all part of the Schengen Agreement, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Holland, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden

You can move freely across borders with no checks. Spain to France or Spain to Portugal is normally conducted at 120kph with out even a single check point in sight. Anyone in Spain can move on to these other states with no further checks as an assumption is made that you are in any of these states you are there legally.

They all do of course carry photographic ID which is subject to random check if you bring yourself to attention. Until I obtained a Residence ID Card I had to carry my passport at all times.

Nutty

Tue you have free movemet - but you cannot LEGALLY work however.

Surely with an EU passport one is entitled to apply for and work in any other EU country?
 

RNRAWBOD

Badgeman
Once a Spanish immigrant becomes a Spanish citizen, yes - but not before.

Same way a Canuk or Aussie backpacker with a 2-year working holiday visa has no right of residence or more importantly to work elsewhere in the EU outwith the UK. Same if they have an ancestry visa.

So they have to wait until becoming a citizen of an EU member state before that may benefit from the privileges/rights of said membership.

Schengen means no checks are made on movement for some countries, but they would be illegal aliens and definitely illegal workers.
 
slim said:
Looks good for the short term. Now what happens when the Spanish economy levels off or even declines. Will this new workforce be dependent on the Spanish state or will they migrate further North to take advantage of other states?

Yes!
And I can suggest some very good Catalan red wines that don't have the instant hangover potential.
 
slim said:
RNRAWBOD said:
Nutty said:
RNRAWBOD said:
well, if they get Spanish nationality, then yes they can. If not, they are restricted to Spain, and subject to their immigration rules...

You can make a fairly strong argument that this all strengthens economies so makes downturns less likely to occur, anyway.

And people tend not to drift to areas of unemployment anyway, especially if they cannot access social security benefits!!!


So all positive in my view.

Not quiet correct.

The following Countries are all part of the Schengen Agreement, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Holland, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden

You can move freely across borders with no checks. Spain to France or Spain to Portugal is normally conducted at 120kph with out even a single check point in sight. Anyone in Spain can move on to these other states with no further checks as an assumption is made that you are in any of these states you are there legally.

They all do of course carry photographic ID which is subject to random check if you bring yourself to attention. Until I obtained a Residence ID Card I had to carry my passport at all times.

Nutty

Tue you have free movemet - but you cannot LEGALLY work however.

Surely with an EU passport one is entitled to apply for and work in any other EU country?

I agree that an EU citizen can legally work and live in any of the 20 odd countries - free movement of people and goods.
If you come from outside the EU zone then you will require the necessary permits or visas.
A citizen of an EU country can live and work at will in any other member state; taxes and social security payments being due in any of the countries.
In Barcelona there are thousands, possibly tens of thousands, of people who live here but work in other EU countries.
You have to have a tax residence in one of the member countries and to be paying the social security payments and that, in my opinion, is it.
 

The_Wonderer

War Hero
Here is a story for you.............

Back in 2000, my Grandad lived in a high rise block of flats. The vacant flat directly opposite him was given to a muslim Albanian family from Kosovo, initially for only six months. The flat was totally refurbished to a standard greater than my Grandad's own self bought home.
Anyway, seven years later, they are still in Liverpool, they've had another two kids (making five in total) and have now been given a four bedroom house.
(and neither parent's are working).
(legitimately anyway)
I can personally remember (about five years ago) seeing the mother working as a cleaner in a local restaurant one morning on my way to work.
(Thankfully, the restaurant owner was eventually charged for using illegal worker's).

My thought process regarding asylum seekers goes something like this.....

I love my home, and my country, and I would fight TO THE DEATH to protect it, and my own right to live in it. Nothing and nobody would ever force me to leave. The only exception, would be to ensure the safety of my wife and child. Then, (and only then - as a last resort), I would go to the NEAREST available country, and await for the day my family and I could hastily return home.

(This should generally explain my mixed feelings regarding asylum seekers)

I seem to remember American and British troops going to Kosovo to sort out the Serb's; and last time I heard, they succeeded in doing so.
:? Did'nt they?

As I stated in an earlier post......

The need to take refuge is one thing........
..........................the need to take refuge indefinately is another.


-rant over

INCOMING!
 
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