Crab Officer graduates

Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#1
On Tuesday or Wednesday the Daily Telegraph carried a Cranwell graduation list. Almost everyone in all branches except a few 'Flying Branch' seemed to be graduates. Can understand this for the engineers but logistics, RAF Regiment etc - interesting. Thought I'd air this in case anyone had comparable figures for BRNC.

[Tried to pull an url on this but the Cranwell website 'News' section has not been updated since July .. tried London Gazette but can't get the search to run .. I'll try my wheelie bin when it's light & not raining & if I remember.]
 
I

In_my_day

Guest
#2
Seaweed said:
On Tuesday or Wednesday the Daily Telegraph carried a Cranwell graduation list. Almost everyone in all branches except a few 'Flying Branch' seemed to be graduates. Can understand this for the engineers but logistics, RAF Regiment etc - interesting. Thought I'd air this in case anyone had comparable figures for BRNC.

[Tried to pull an url on this but the Cranwell website 'News' section has not been updated since July .. tried London Gazette but can't get the search to run .. I'll try my wheelie bin when it's light & not raining & if I remember.]
I just had a look at the Navy List, from another thread. Going through the first 3 pages, approx 120 people, and there are 93 grads. 43 of these are Lt/Capt RM or below

http://www.rncom.mod.uk/uploadedFiles/RN/Reference_Library/e_navy_list_2006.pdf

IMD
 
#3
In_my_day said:
Seaweed said:
On Tuesday or Wednesday the Daily Telegraph carried a Cranwell graduation list. Almost everyone in all branches except a few 'Flying Branch' seemed to be graduates. Can understand this for the engineers but logistics, RAF Regiment etc - interesting. Thought I'd air this in case anyone had comparable figures for BRNC.

[Tried to pull an url on this but the Cranwell website 'News' section has not been updated since July .. tried London Gazette but can't get the search to run .. I'll try my wheelie bin when it's light & not raining & if I remember.]
I just had a look at the Navy List, from another thread. Going through the first 3 pages, approx 120 people, and there are 93 grads. 43 of these are Lt/Capt RM or below

http://www.rncom.mod.uk/uploadedFiles/RN/Reference_Library/e_navy_list_2006.pdf

IMD
Try enrolling Lower Deck with a degree. You will get the bums rush.
 
#5
wave_dodger said:
I don't agree. I taught plenty of AEMs at Daedalus who had degrees and I know a CPO WE who joined with a degree.
I stand corrected. That you taught plenty of AEM's with degrees on entry astounds me. What happened to them subsequently? That a CPO WE should join at that rating with a degree is understandable.
 
#6
loftym said:
That a CPO WE should join at that rating with a degree is understandable.
S/he wouldn't join as a CPO, they've got to that rate in the normal course.

As already observed, in other threads a number of branches have graduates, although not in huge numbers.
 
I

In_my_day

Guest
#7
loftym said:
Try enrolling Lower Deck with a degree. You will get the bums rush.
That went straight over my head, care to expand? I would have thought that anyone that joined the ranks (I know 2 that joined as Mnes) with a degree had made a concious decision to do so. If they did it with the expectation of early advancement and were disappointed then perhaps they made the wrong choice initially.

To prempt one line in a possible debate, having a degree does not automatically make one a good leader, manager, officer or Senior rank, it is having the qualities, skills, trg, personality and; with time; experience that do so. The degree (real degrees anyway) show the ability to absorb, collate and analyse information; reaching informed decisions based on that info, hopfully leading to a similar ability in the professional arena.

IMD
 
#8
In_my_day said:
loftym said:
Try enrolling Lower Deck with a degree. You will get the bums rush.
That went straight over my head, care to expand? I would have thought that anyone that joined the ranks (I know 2 that joined as Mnes) with a degree had made a concious decision to do so. If they did it with the expectation of early advancement and were disappointed then perhaps they made the wrong choice initially.

To prempt one line in a possible debate, having a degree does not automatically make one a good leader, manager, officer or Senior rank, it is having the qualities, skills, trg, personality and; with time; experience that do so. The degree (real degrees anyway) show the ability to absorb, collate and analyse information; reaching informed decisions based on that info, hopfully leading to a similar ability in the professional arena.

IMD
So what is a degree for? If one intends spending ones naval life as an AB Why bother?
 
#9
loftym said:
So what is a degree for?
Good question, well asked. What is the value of foo degree?

If one intends spending ones naval life as an AB Why bother?
Personal choice perhaps. However the point being disputed here is whether one would get the bums rush were one to enquire about rating entry as a graduate.

The system will not prevent one applying, some branches exist where it might be a positive advantage.
 
#10
The types of Degree available to be taken at the moment at various
colleges /Universities are very diverse ---and possibly commercially useless.

Also some Open university degree's are questionable for content .




:nemo: :nemo:
 
I

In_my_day

Guest
#11
loftym said:
To prempt one line in a possible debate, having a degree does not automatically make one a good leader, manager, officer or Senior rank, it is having the qualities, skills, trg, personality and; with time; experience that do so. The degree (real degrees anyway) show the ability to absorb, collate and analyse information; reaching informed decisions based on that info, hopefully leading to a similar ability in the professional arena.

IMD

So what is a degree for? If one intends spending ones naval life as an AB Why bother?
Again, whoosh...

To answer the first question see my answer above and extrapolate from the last 10 words. Graduates are expected to have the ability to absorb and process great quantities of info (whilst for some courses remembering vast amounts from the start to the finish of the course). Not having access or insight to any official policy, I believe that having graduates* in the Service ensures that the intellectual, developmental and command aspects are fed by those with proven academic ability. * I fully accept that many non-grads are equally as well versed in these areas as grads and that many grads are educated idiots sans CDF!!

As to the second; exactly, why bother? In fact I'd go one step further, if one intends to spend ones whole career as an AB why join in the first place? However, those I know of personally did not intend to stay as Mnes, they sought and gained promotion along with their non-grad peers. Perhaps you are suggesting that as an OR with a degree one is a better candidate for promotion or should have some guaranteed right of passage?


IMD
 
#12
Greenie said:
The types of Degree available to be taken at the moment at various
colleges /Universities are very diverse ---and possibly commercially useless.

Also some Open university degree's are questionable for content .




:nemo: :nemo:
Some Open University degree's (sic) are questionable for content?? Care to expand on that? He says, as someone with a BA from the OU. One incidentally, started as an LMA, and studied for through a career which included bomber patrols, AACC, and Dartmouth.

And a degree is just not for getting on in life. It's a way of broadening one's knowledge, gaining insight into subjects previously not understood, or just for for general interest and fun. Whatever the reason, it's still hard graft and not a postal degree.

I rest - suitably vented.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#14
They did the degrees because they liked/enjoyed the subjects - the joined the RN because they wanted those careers. Of the people I knew - one never ever wanted any form of responsibility (so Officer was out) but liked engineering and loved aircraft - another just wasn't sure what we wanted, had wandered into a degree then wandered into a job.

CPO was an entirely different kettle of poisson - did a degree knowing he was going to going the RN as a Rating, determined to get promoted yardie or SD. Desperate to have a good experience and prove himself. His way of doing it.

I have an RAF SAC working for me currently with a degree in IS and a Cpl IS Engineer RSigs with a degree in IS too - both are happy with their lot, currently.
 
#15
I think the thing with degrees is some people take them purely to broaden their knowledge without plans for a career path. I have a degree, yet I'm looking at applying as WE Technician as that's the career I want to follow
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#16
A similar thread has been running in Newbies with regard people joining as a rating whilst qualified for officer. Whilst it's quite common & entirely acceptable if that's what the individual chooses, it is also equally common for the individual to claim otherwise after they have joined:

Ninja_Stoker said:
witsend said:
I have a MEM/ET in my section who has 3 A levels and is starting to realise that maybe at the careers office he was sold a bunch of !!!!!!!!!
I'd be fascinated to hear more!

It's not uncommon for graduates to join the Royal Marines as an Other Rank & alarmingly common for people with A Levels to fail the basic Recuiting Test for Officer. Alternatively if the guy does not have the basic 5 GCSE's at Grade C including Maths & English plus 140 UCAS points at A2 (not AS) Level, then he's ineligible to join as an Officer. Maybe the guy took AIB & failed, maybe as many do, the individual decided to "start at the bottom".

It's surprising how many people twist the facts to appear as though there was a conspiracy against them and they are the aggrieved party. The Careers Office are more intent on getting people in the correct jobs so as they stay in, rather than trying to get as many in as possible.

If you are the guy's Divisional Officer, read his "AFCO Form 101" (Selection Interview Report) & all will become abundantly clear, despite the claims of the individual. If someone is qualified educationally for officer but does not elect to go for officer selection, his Careers Adviser has to write a justification as to why he was not put forward as an officer- similarly if someone scores well over and above the recruiting test score for their chosen trade, the report must confirm that the individual is aware of the trades available.

Finally, when the guy signed on his RN Form S3049, he signed a statement to the effect that his Careers Adviser had explained all jobs available to him & is content with his chosen trade.
 
#17
Ninja_Stoker said:
A similar thread has been running in Newbies with regard people joining as a rating whilst qualified for officer. Whilst it's quite common & entirely acceptable if that's what the individual chooses, it is also equally common for the individual to claim otherwise after they have joined:

Ninja_Stoker said:
witsend said:
I have a MEM/ET in my section who has 3 A levels and is starting to realise that maybe at the careers office he was sold a bunch of !!!!!!!!!
I'd be fascinated to hear more!

It's not uncommon for graduates to join the Royal Marines as an Other Rank & alarmingly common for people with A Levels to fail the basic Recuiting Test for Officer. Alternatively if the guy does not have the basic 5 GCSE's at Grade C including Maths & English plus 140 UCAS points at A2 (not AS) Level, then he's ineligible to join as an Officer. Maybe the guy took AIB & failed, maybe as many do, the individual decided to "start at the bottom".

It's surprising how many people twist the facts to appear as though there was a conspiracy against them and they are the aggrieved party. The Careers Office are more intent on getting people in the correct jobs so as they stay in, rather than trying to get as many in as possible.

If you are the guy's Divisional Officer, read his "AFCO Form 101" (Selection Interview Report) & all will become abundantly clear, despite the claims of the individual. If someone is qualified educationally for officer but does not elect to go for officer selection, his Careers Adviser has to write a justification as to why he was not put forward as an officer- similarly if someone scores well over and above the recruiting test score for their chosen trade, the report must confirm that the individual is aware of the trades available.

Finally, when the guy signed on his RN Form S3049, he signed a statement to the effect that his Careers Adviser had explained all jobs available to him & is content with his chosen trade.
You refer only to the Fawkses's side of the entrants. Does your interesting dissertation on graduate entry not equably apply to distaff applicants?
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#18
loftym said:
You refer only to the Fawkses's side of the entrants. Does your interesting dissertation on graduate entry not equably apply to distaff applicants?
If it were apparent what you were on about Norman, it would merit a reply, but seeing as it's highly unlikely you know yourself, there's little point.
 
#19
You refer only to the Fawkses's side of the entrants. Does your interesting dissertation on graduate entry not equably apply to distaff applicants?
May I just say -

[align=center]wtf??[/align] [align=center] :dontknow: [/align]
 
I

In_my_day

Guest
#20
PinkMafiosi said:
You refer only to the Fawkses's side of the entrants. Does your interesting dissertation on graduate entry not equably apply to distaff applicants?
May I just say -

[align=center]wtf??[/align] [align=center] :dontknow: [/align]
You may and I'll raise you 2!!
[align=center]wtf??[/align] [align=center] :dontknow: [/align]
[align=center]wtf??[/align] [align=center] :dontknow: [/align]


IMD
 

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