Coroner not best pleased over MOD cover up.

mophead

Lantern Swinger
To be fair he was only ever on a short term contract any way to clear the backlog. He has done that so thepoor sod has workerd himself out of a job.

Little to do with this case I think

Do you also believe in the tooth fairy and the omnipotence of el presidente tone?
he got the chop(contract not renewed)because he did not toe the party line

Rant sort of over
 
wet_blobby said:
maxi 77 your to forgiving. political games with soldiers lives should not be played.

I am not forgiving, i am suggesting that firstly this incident is used extensively to teach people just how easy fratricide is and thus what they should be thinking of to avoid it. If our 2 A10 guys had seen a film like that before they deployed do you think they would have made the mistakes they did.

Secondly I am suggesting that the UK and US set up a proper joint method of dealing with fratricide so that attempted cover ups are more difficult to achieve and there is a sensible method of dealing with relatives. If this had been done in this case the coroners inquest would have been a formality and the tape would never have been seen in public.

As the US have done their inquiry long ago the opportunity to take action against the air crew if that was justified is long gone anyway, and will not change anything that happened. It would be far more productive to use what we have learned to reduce the changces of it happening again (you will never be able to say never human failure will always be a possibility) and to devise better ways of dealing with the aftermath that is better primarily for the relatives and if you use any future events as a learning opportunity you keep downward pressure on the probability of a repeat.
 

Deeps

War Hero
finknottle said:
It is obvious from the radio chatter that these A10 pilots had doubts regarding the legitimacy of our armoured vehicles as a target, if you have doubts you don't attack and it's as simple as that.
Finkbottle what do you base this comment on? Your experience as an armchair fast air pilot? There are so many factors involved in this incident,the Sun are claiming all the glory for releasing the footage,and saving the world and our armed forces. The Sun only gives a stuff about selling newspapers. Lets spare a thought for L/COH Hulls wife and family.
Yes the pilot messed up, but who are the armchair generals with absolutely no idea what happens in combat to say anything?
 

Bergen

ADC
The title of this thread refers to 'MOD cover up'. This appears to be exactly what has occurred here and there has been little direct criticism of the pilots.

The way that I read Finknottle's post is that the pilots had genuine doubts about the identity of the British armour and despite being told that there were no friendlies in the area they should have been more prudent.

Whenever incidents like this occur they are a result of multiple failures along the line; the pilot's actions being the final failure in a chain of events set in motion by others. At the tactical level we can talk all day about the lack of IFF and visual recognition training for US pilots working up close and personal with British assets. All these points are valid criticism.

The bigger picture is that it suited the MOD and Britain's present political establishment to suppress an efficient enquiry into these events because it would have exposed them to wider ranging questions about why British assets were so poorly equipped for their mission, particularly given the high percentage of British casualties caused by friendly fire during GW1. The phrase 'lessons learned' springs to mind immediately.

RM
 
Deeps said:
finknottle said:
It is obvious from the radio chatter that these A10 pilots had doubts regarding the legitimacy of our armoured vehicles as a target, if you have doubts you don't attack and it's as simple as that.
Finkbottle what do you base this comment on? Your experience as an armchair fast air pilot?
Yes the pilot messed up, but who are the armchair generals with absolutely no idea what happens in combat to say anything?
I think most people on this site have more experience of combat than the average civvy and being a forum Finknottle is entitled to his opinions as much as you are. Also it seems quite obvious from the video that they had doubts, we heard that.
 
Deeps said:
finknottle said:
It is obvious from the radio chatter that these A10 pilots had doubts regarding the legitimacy of our armoured vehicles as a target, if you have doubts you don't attack and it's as simple as that.
Finkbottle what do you base this comment on? Your experience as an armchair fast air pilot? There are so many factors involved in this incident,the Sun are claiming all the glory for releasing the footage,and saving the world and our armed forces. The Sun only gives a stuff about selling newspapers. Lets spare a thought for L/COH Hulls wife and family.
Yes the pilot messed up, but who are the armchair generals with absolutely no idea what happens in combat to say anything?

Wind your neck in Popeye just because you have a brace of trout as your avatar makes you an expert does it? I base my comments on common sense and my 23 years service. As for insinuating that I have no sympathy for the family how dare you? In fact your comments indicate to me that as a moderator you set yourself high standards and consistently fail to meet them, a fact proven by your baseless innuendoes directed at me.

Lingyai, Thanks pal :wink:
 

Deeps

War Hero
Iam a combat ready FAC in a FR regiment (same type of regiment as Matty Hull) 120 operation fast air controls in Iraq .So I am a damn sight more of an expert than most.Your 23 years of service makes you an expert of feck all unless you can fly fast air or know your ''Bingo'' from your ''winchester''

Paranoid are we? my comments ref his family were not directed at you .As for my moderation , ha ha on the submariners forum yes I am a mod but on the rest of Rum Ration I'm like the rest of you.
 

slim

War Hero
From the information that is available it would seem that the FACs on the ground had no knowledge of the friendly forces that were in the area. The question that needs to be answered is WHY? There has obviously been a lack of communications somewhere, that however desnot excuse the combat pilot attacking without approval from command. The Americans have frequently been accused of gung ho actions, this case seems to give these accusations credability
 
Deeps said:
Iam a combat ready FAC in a FR regiment (same type of regiment as Matty Hull) 120 operation fast air controls in Iraq .So I am a damn sight more of an expert than most.Your 23 years of service makes you an expert of feck all unless you can fly fast air or know your ''Bingo'' from your ''winchester''

Paranoid are we? my comments ref his family were not directed at you .As for my moderation , ha ha on the submariners forum yes I am a mod but on the rest of Rum Ration I'm like the rest of you.

Like the rest of us you say, I don't think so as most of us are well rounded people who do not have their head stuck up their own arse. It is obvious from your comments that you have no understanding of what you heard on the recording no matter what you claim to be. Also, if your infantile comments about having no sympathy were not directed at me why did you include it in your reply? Get a grip lad.

Unlike you I do not profess to be an expert but I am capable of giving an evaluation using the evidence available.
 

Hawkeye

Lantern Swinger
Deeps said:
Iam a combat ready FAC in a FR regiment (same type of regiment as Matty Hull) 120 operation fast air controls in Iraq .So I am a damn sight more of an expert than most.Your 23 years of service makes you an expert of feck all unless you can fly fast air or know your ''Bingo'' from your ''winchester''

Paranoid are we? my comments ref his family were not directed at you .As for my moderation , ha ha on the submariners forum yes I am a mod but on the rest of Rum Ration I'm like the rest of you.

Deeps I for one do not like your stroppy attitude.
As a moderator you should be more impartial.
Your tone implies you know everything and the rest of us humble people who have served for many years including Falklands, first Gulf War and so on don't have a clue or even entitled to an opinion
 
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