Confirmation of what we old farts have been saying for years

Guzzler

War Hero
Re: Confirmation of what we old farts have been saying for y

slim said:
mattbea said:
My two nieces and little brother are all at my house today, and they can certainly spell but behaviour can be a massive problem when they have been to school and come home... I think discipline is the key to most problems which kids KNOW they cannot be punished proficiently

In some respects Matt you are right. Unfortunately the PC brigade have destroyed and discipline that was in schools and the kids all seem to know that they cannot be touched or even in some cases shouted at.
Old style discipline was overused, I was frequently canned by the religious instruction teacher for bad handwriting (my handwriting is still bad). However I believe that the cane should have been retained as punishment in some cases (thieving, bullying, malicious damage etc.).

Did you ever get canned for poor spelling slim? :thumright:
 

slim

War Hero
Re: Confirmation of what we old farts have been saying for y

Guzzler said:
slim said:
mattbea said:
My two nieces and little brother are all at my house today, and they can certainly spell but behaviour can be a massive problem when they have been to school and come home... I think discipline is the key to most problems which kids KNOW they cannot be punished proficiently

In some respects Matt you are right. Unfortunately the PC brigade have destroyed and discipline that was in schools and the kids all seem to know that they cannot be touched or even in some cases shouted at.
Old style discipline was overused, I was frequently canned by the religious instruction teacher for bad handwriting (my handwriting is still bad). However I believe that the cane should have been retained as punishment in some cases (thieving, bullying, malicious damage etc.).

Did you ever get canned for poor spelling slim? :thumright:

No but I was never much good at it!
Certainly helps to have a spelling checker which doesn't know the difference between caned and canned. :thumright:
 

Ballistic

War Hero
Re: Confirmation of what we old farts have been saying for y

AuldYin said:
As a college lecturer (in Business and Management Studies), my colleagues and I unfortunately see this all the time. Students' spend years at school where spelling and grammar isn't corrected and they are allowed to write in text speak. We have to spend a lot of time correcting this when they submit assignments and reports. Unfortunately they don't see it as important and cant accept why we wont let them write to employers and Universities using text speak.

Please tell me I'm biting
 

Cardisoma

Midshipman
Re: Confirmation of what we old farts have been saying for y

I've been a secondary teacher since leaving the military and the pupils think I'm unreasonable because I don't accept "text speak" or slang in their work. Unfortunately I think the problem goes deeper than that, however. In the UK the standard of English language and spelling has been going down for years. The thinking was that they "should be allowed to express themselves without the constraints of formal spelling and grammar" (I was actually told that by a headteacher at one school, when I commented on standards!)

I now work in an international school and to be honest the standard of English from non-native speakers tends to be better than the majority of the British students.

Don't blame all teachers though. There are still some of us who try to maintain standards, but we are swimming against the tide. Standards are falling generally (you only have to look at the BBC, once the "Gold Standard" - hence the expression "BBC English" - to see that. How many grammatical and typographical errors do you find on their website, for example? Listen carefully and you can hear Lord Reith spinning in his grave) and the general attitude seems to be "who cares, it's close enough".
 

AuldYin

Badgeman
Re: Confirmation of what we old farts have been saying for y

Ballistic said:
AuldYin said:
As a college lecturer (in Business and Management Studies), my colleagues and I unfortunately see this all the time. Students' spend years at school where spelling and grammar isn't corrected and they are allowed to write in text speak. We have to spend a lot of time correcting this when they submit assignments and reports. Unfortunately they don't see it as important and cant accept why we wont let them write to employers and Universities using text speak.

Please tell me I'm biting

Sorry, but that was due to typing in a rush (which is not really an excuse), however can't and won't are the only 2 errors as the others are correct in this context. (Although I'm sure Lyn Truss may disagree)
 

NZ_Bootneck

War Hero
As per usual the Wail has a pop at Teachers who have responsibility for a child for at most 6 hours a day five days a week in term time, 30 hours a week.
Who is responsible for the other 138 hours in the week?
Surely not the parents who might instill a little spelling, grammar and reasoning ability into their children's minds, if it wasn't for the soaps, social networking sites and pub time that might be missed.
I used to volunteer to take children in my daughters class for extra reading, until I asked one "Do your Mum or Dad read to you or listen to you read at bedtime?' "No" he replied "She's too busy playing WarCraft.", I continued for the remainder of the term then begged off.
How a parent can know that their child needs help with their reading but not help them is in my mind negligence, the fact that this woman is pregnant again fills me with pity for the poor sods.
 
I once got the cane for playing the school Piano during lunch break. OK you may say, but I was a member of the school Orchestra and eventually went on to play with the Halle Orchestra on one occassion representing said school!
These days I am really glad that my daughter goes to a school which instills discipline and good manners. Mind you, I had to emigrate to achieve that.
 

TheRowan

Lantern Swinger
Re: Confirmation of what we old farts have been saying for y

AuldYin said:
Ballistic said:
AuldYin said:
As a college lecturer (in Business and Management Studies), my colleagues and I unfortunately see this all the time. Students' spend years at school where spelling and grammar isn't corrected and they are allowed to write in text speak. We have to spend a lot of time correcting this when they submit assignments and reports. Unfortunately they don't see it as important and cant accept why we wont let them write to employers and Universities using text speak.

Please tell me I'm biting

Sorry, but that was due to typing in a rush (which is not really an excuse), however can't and won't are the only 2 errors as the others are correct in this context. (Although I'm sure Lyn Truss may disagree)

I'm unclear as to why exactly the apostrophe on Students' is correct, as you are referring to a group of students and not to items possessed by said group. Similarly, I'm sure you would be glad to explain why the sentence shouldn't read "..spelling and grammar aren't corrected..."
 

AuldYin

Badgeman
Re: Confirmation of what we old farts have been saying for y

TheRowan said:
AuldYin said:
Ballistic said:
AuldYin said:
As a college lecturer (in Business and Management Studies), my colleagues and I unfortunately see this all the time. Students' spend years at school where spelling and grammar isn't corrected and they are allowed to write in text speak. We have to spend a lot of time correcting this when they submit assignments and reports. Unfortunately they don't see it as important and cant accept why we wont let them write to employers and Universities using text speak.

Please tell me I'm biting

Sorry, but that was due to typing in a rush (which is not really an excuse), however can't and won't are the only 2 errors as the others are correct in this context. (Although I'm sure Lyn Truss may disagree)

I'm unclear as to why exactly the apostrophe on Students' is correct, as you are referring to a group of students and not to items possessed by said group. Similarly, I'm sure you would be glad to explain why the sentence shouldn't read "..spelling and grammar aren't corrected..."

Sorry, you are indeed correct and the apostrophe should not be there. (I was initially going to comment on the assignments belonging to a group of students, but changed it). However, the spelling and grammar refer to different situations,;eg; the spelling isn't correct on one assignment and the grammar isn't correct on another. I apologise for mixing my singular and plural possesive in one sentence, but as a Scotsman, we didn't study proper English at school ......lol :notworthy:
I don't believe that I'm sitting here on a Sunday morning answering this but I am actually marking work and it is that bad that I use any excuse to take a break.
 

slim

War Hero
Re: Confirmation of what we old farts have been saying for y

I sincerely believe that the real reason for youngsters not being able to express themselves ion written English is because they are in many cases incapable of speaking the language.
A great many of them seem to think that because they may have a little black blood in them they have to speak like a Jamaican. Others are unable to speak a sentence without using the words innit or you know what I mean. In fact when seeing youngsters trying to put their point across on television I often think sub titles should be available.
 
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