Commissioning Pendant

#1
I've got to come clean.... I have a problem... this is very dificult for me .. I collect .....FLAGS , there I've said it ! mainly ensigns that have finished their lives and are to be consigned to the bin, now I've just found theres one flag I cant have, its the Commissioning Pendant, something to do with the new c.o. claiming it, can someone out there shed some light on his tradition
dave[hr]
 
#2
If you're talking of a completed commission pendant (one and a half times the ships length) then you may have a problem, these would only heve been flown when the ship arrived at it's home port, as to finally 'claimed' the pendant I never knew.
But if you mean the smaller, everday flown, pendant then these used to be Naval Stores items, don't you have an oppo who is a dusty?
:smile:
 
#5
That was the positive side of being a dusty - we had all the books (and the perks - all earned of course) !

Pendant , Ships Commission, used to be in Stores Class 0330, as were Pennants, but these were listed for Commodore One Ball / 2 Balls.
Some signal flags were pennant shaped also, but were in Class 0340.
All before the Nato 13 digit codings became de rigeur for use..

Sad innit... the memories that the brain produces ?!

:smile:
 
#6
general_jumbo. said:
yes its the smaller every day item, my youngest has just branch changed to SEA and its her thats just imformed me about about this 'tradition"
I'm sure she can chat a up a Loggie and get one for you. Stores ratings enjoy the attention... !! :wink:
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#7
whitemouse said:
general_jumbo. said:
yes its the smaller every day item, my youngest has just branch changed to SEA and its her thats just imformed me about about this 'tradition"
I'm sure she can chat a up a Loggie and get one for you. Stores ratings enjoy the attention... !! :wink:
But we know why they're called "stores" - if they were meant to be given away they'd be called "issues"... :wink:
 

ANGWISH

Lantern Swinger
#8
whitemouse said:
general_jumbo. said:
yes its the smaller every day item, my youngest has just branch changed to SEA and its her thats just imformed me about about this 'tradition"
I'm sure she can chat a up a Loggie and get one for you. Stores ratings enjoy the attention... !! :wink:
She could also try the flag locker, any no. of pennants to choose from in there. Unless things have changed, it should be easy for a bunting tosser to damage or "lose" one :grin: :lol:
 
#9
sgtpepperband said:
whitemouse said:
general_jumbo. said:
yes its the smaller every day item, my youngest has just branch changed to SEA and its her thats just imformed me about about this 'tradition"
I'm sure she can chat a up a Loggie and get one for you. Stores ratings enjoy the attention... !! :wink:
But we know why they're called "stores" - if they were meant to be given away they'd be called "issues"... :wink:
Touche !
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
#10
ANGWISH said:
She could also try the flag locker, any no. of pennants to choose from in there. Unless things have changed, it should be easy for a bunting tosser to damage or "lose" one :grin: :lol:
Highly unlikely to find commissioning pennant, Ensign or Jack in the flag locker - usually it only contains signalling flags/pennants; you'll need to speak to one of the Comms dept to obtain the key to the V/S store to find what you're after.
 
#12
thanks guys, but I only collect used flags, one's that have been at the masthead of one of hm's warships thats been on deployment, thus each tells a story,( plus anything I care to add) I just wondered about a new co claiming the old pennant as he took command, I've never heard of this tradition before
thanks dave
 

hammockhead

Lantern Swinger
#13
RN commissioning pendants will be routinely be replaced when they get worn/dirty. You just need to speak to comms rating who changes it. Also they are used as the CO's personal pendant when he is in a boat on ceremonial business. They are far too short now, apparently there is only one size, a miserable 1 yard, where in the old days the smallest pendant was 3 yards long, and the longest 14 yards.

In the USN the tradition is for the commissioning pendant to be struck and given to the departing CO, and a new one hoisted for the new CO.

Covey Crump has this about paying-off pendants:

Paying Off Pendant
It has long been the custom of H.M. Ships returning home to pay off after a commission abroad to wear a paying-off pendant. It is to be noted that this is a custom only - it is not an officially - authorised action, nor is the pendant itself provided from official sources. Being unofficial, no instructions about it appear in any naval regulations. The pendant is invariably white with a red St George's cross at the hoist; at the end of the fly a balloon or (formerly) a bladder - sometimes gilded - is often attached to keep the fly clear of the water.

The custom is said to have originated in the XIX century, when all cleaning rags were stitched together and hoisted as a sign that they were finished with. Later, when "proper" paying-off pendants were made on board, it became the custom for every member of the ship's company to put in a few stitches. Nowadays the pendants are invariably bought ashore at the expense of the ship's welfare fund.

As the paying-off pendant is itself unofficial, there can be no authoritative rules about its length; the following have been cited - (a) the length of the ship if the commission has lasted the correct length of time with additions or abatements from that length corresponding to the difference between the actual length of the commission and the 'normal' length of a commission; (b) the length of the ship plus one foot for every month completed on the station; (c) one and a third times the length of the ship; (d) one and half times the height of the foremast. It should be borne in mind that the commission referred to is the length of time the ship's company has been abroad, not the ship herself: when a ship recommissions abroad a fresh commission is started; thus a commission of longer than 2¾ years is exceptional.
 
#14
'In the USN the tradition is for the commissioning pendant to be struck and given to the departing CO, and a new one hoisted for the new CO. '

that seems to sum it up perfectly, could this tradition have been transfered to the RN? oh and i should have said my daughters responsible for the flag locker,
dave
 
#15
Can the modern Royal Navy afford flags? do they have anybody who knows how to use them properly (they don't seem able to return the salutes of Merchant ships these days!) that'll get 'em going tee hee!
 

hammockhead

Lantern Swinger
#16
letthecatoutofthebag said:
I think you'll find its we (the RN) who pass on traditions to the USN and not the other way round. :lol: :lol:

I have never known for the the outgoing CO to take a pennant with him - as a previous post said the penants get changed when they get dirty so they wont stay hoisted for the duration of a CO's tenure and therefore have no true meaning to him.
True, but some customs they keep better than we have, e.g. the number of pipes that they still make on USN ships is astounding, on an RN ship you only hear the still, carry on, pipe the side and call the hands.

They also keep to the original tradition of hoisting a "homeward-bound" (decommissioning) pendant each time they return from an overseas commission, rather than when the ship is about to be scrapped. Maybe because they still have overseas naval bases to permanently commission ships to!

I think the only time a CO might take away his masthead pendant in the RN is e.g. if he was being replaced by a commodore, in which case the masthead pendant would be struck.
 

hammockhead

Lantern Swinger
#17
Technically, I think, the masthead pendant is also the sign of the captain's commission. That is why he and he alone flies it in the ship's boats. It is displaced in the presence of superior authority: there is a list in QRRN of which flags do and which don't displace the masthead pendant. Generally, commodores' broad pendants, admirals' flags and the Royal Standard all displace the masthead pendant; the flags of generals and air marshals (even CDS, if I recall correctly) and foreign royalty do not.

Perhaps a departing CO does take away a masthead pendant - look at the fourth picture here
 

ANGWISH

Lantern Swinger
#20
FlagWagger said:
ANGWISH said:
She could also try the flag locker, any no. of pennants to choose from in there. Unless things have changed, it should be easy for a bunting tosser to damage or "lose" one :grin: :lol:
Highly unlikely to find commissioning pennant, Ensign or Jack in the flag locker - usually it only contains signalling flags/pennants; you'll need to speak to one of the Comms dept to obtain the key to the V/S store to find what you're after.
That's what i meant bunts, but got confused cos they don't have us no more.
When i was on the Rusty B, my part of ship and action station was the flag deck, so i spent most of my time hiding in the flag store :grin: :wink: :cool:
 

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