CIA Torture report

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Montigny-La-Palisse, Dec 9, 2014.

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  1. TBH, none of that surprises me at all.
  2. Me neither :-(
  3. I'm not sure where we go from here. All that condemnation of torture from Assad, Saddam, Libya etc and the CIA has been not only matching it, but in some cases trumping all of it. In many ways we all knew it was happening, but to this extent?

    By association, however tenuous, the moral high ground and any democratic message is completely and utterly lost.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
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  4. It's a prime example of hypocrisy in action, next step down is executions on youtube but not even the yanks would go that far.
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  5. There has recently been a campaign to televise death penalty executions in the US.

    The gap narrows...
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  6. Blackrat

    Blackrat War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Ah yes. The land of the free. Quick to condemn and yet, quite happy to carry on doing what they do in the name of "Freedom". Hippocritical doesn't really cover it. Just look at Guantanamo Bay. People being held without even being charged in a lot of cases. Ludicrous. And yes, we had internment over the water in the 70's and 80's, but that stopped (thankfully, as it was illegal) due to public opinion more than anything else.

    It's an age old question; would you torture to save lives? It's a puzzler. Equally, are confessions made under torture reliable? Well it has been proven time and time again that this is not the case. People will pretty much say anything to make the pain stop. Yet we look back at people like Matthew Hopkins, the infamous Witchfinder General, and say "How barbaric and how stupid". We've not actually moved on as a species have we?

    America justify what they do because they fight for freedom, because they state they are civilised and because they are the candle in these times of darkness. To be honest, i'd rather blunder around in the dark.
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  7. Thinking on, with the spate of US police gunning down, or chokeholding, unarmed civilians, all of which appears to have been filmed and posted online, you could say the gap has narrowed significantly.
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  8. When the smelly foreigners do it, it is because they are fundamentally bad people.

    When "we" do it, it is because we are protecting the cause of freedom, democracy and mom's apple pie.

    Which is alright, because we are the Good Guys.
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  9. Blackrat

    Blackrat War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Taken straight from the American Book of Justification.
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  10. Get your hands on a book by a guy called Ian Cobain. 'Cruel Britannia'. Bit of an eye opener.
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  11. Blackrat

    Blackrat War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    I know that we are no angels. We've got quite a bit of filth on our hands too. However, we've nothing on our cousins over the pond.
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  12. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    I was genuinely shocked at some of what I read - this goes way beyond acceptable to save lives, into bluntly what felt more as if some people were living out sadomasochistic fantasies in real life.

    Our enemy is evil, nasty, devious and may well do this sort of thing to us. We must not respond in kind for we are better than this.
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  13. Bit of a case of "Do as I say" not "Do as I do"?? Problem as I see it now is the sh*t slinging and as we all know sh*t sticks to the blanket ... so what exactly is the UK involvement in this. Tales of CIA black op transport overflying UK air space and even landing en route to areas where they could "legally" torture is rife ... are we implicated in removing undesirables and handing them over to the US without extradition orders especially as we could deduce with all probability that they would be tortured?

    Lets face it .. our colonial cousins (or even the UK) do not have a particularly good track record when it comes to "human rights" ... although I can't quote chapter & verse I seem to remember in their eradication of Native Americans that sexual assault, torture etc was common place (General Custer etc) not to mention the Salem Witches episode ( which yes could be aligned to Matthew Hopkins over here) - but in the early days most of the US were of European decent so where did it come from in the first place? Yes OK we (royal we) all wave the Geneva Convention around and say we are good boys now but when this sort of this hits the headlines are we any better than some of the 3rd world countries who openly practice this sort of barbarianisms?
  14. At least they've not been subjected to Pusser's Scran! That's torture!
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  15. Interesting points MGM. Particularly the complicity aspect - there are definitely claims of handing over undesirables as part of the witch-hunt, as evidenced when Libya fell apart when Gaddafi lost his grip, partly due to our direct involvement. Law of unintended consequences and all that.

    The difference is that much of what you quote are historical examples of our general progression towards the modern civilised state we currently enjoy - and the fact that many of our people are appalled that such acts were being carried out gives hope that the majority will continue to press for keeping our state civilised and not allow a descent back to naked barbarity.

    Then again, as Dumas (or Trotsky, or Adams, or possibly the ancient Roman republic) is reputed to have said - "any society is only three square meals away from revolution".
  16. Blackrat

    Blackrat War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    I would urge those that haven't read it to have a flick through. Certain things jump out at you. Even i am a bit shocked.
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  17. And the Human Rights lawyers are rubbing their hands with glee!!
  18. I thought it was the STC escape and evasion manual

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  19. One would hope so ... (my bold) but there again one of the reasons history is taught in schools is to make sure we don't make the same mistakes twice (allegedly :)).

    I don't think its any use asking if Obama/Call me Dave/Broown et al actually knew it was going on thus giving them plausible deniability but one would imagine that someone in the corridors of power either in the Pentagon or Whitehall knew and actually countenanced it. What was that film with Jack whatshisname as a US General in court ... "You can't handle the truth!".

    Wasn't it reported in the papers (OK so perhaps not the most reliable source of information) recently that the "Security Services" has thwarted 20 odd terrorist related threats in the UK this year ... with all this going on one has to wonder if this was down to a couple of CIA goons in some tin shed, a surf board and a gallon of water out in the boondocks?

    Makes you wonder also that for a country that still executes prisoners for crimes against humanity yet they sanction torture in the interests of National Security! Double standards? no surely not!
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