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choices, choices!

tiddlyoggy said:
Lammers,
She wasn't the one who ran it aground off Chile was she? (I've seen that rock! Looked more like a f****** island to me!)

No TO it wasn't her :)
And NO I didn't jump up and down on the flight deck either - too busy almost drowning in what used to be the Fwd STP ;)
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
tiddlyoggy said:
Kyle,
One of my mates is an MCDO, chatting to him recently he said that there are genuine concerns that the branch is to be killed off. Don't know what his source of info was, but if that happens they will all be reverted to warfare officers.

Can't speak for MCDOs, but the recruiting requirement for MCD ratings (those who do the diving on a day to day basis) has doubled for next year.
 

tiddlyoggy

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Ninja,
Yes my oppo commented on this as well. His lads are leaving at a phenomonal rate due to the vast amounts of money the offshore industry are offering them. Hopefully that would give confidence in the long term future of the branch, but I wouldn't put it past the mob to recruit these lads only to force them into recatting (not that the mob's ever shafted anyone!)
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
tiddlyoggy said:
Ninja,
Yes my oppo commented on this as well. His lads are leaving at a phenomonal rate due to the vast amounts of money the offshore industry are offering them. Hopefully that would give confidence in the long term future of the branch, but I wouldn't put it past the mob to recruit these lads only to force them into recatting (not that the mob's ever shafted anyone!)

Nothing like a bit of supposition eh?

First off, yes the offshore diving industry does indeed beckon trained MCDs with wages up around £50K upwards. But first they have to pass diver training, complete their return of service, then undergo a civilian conversion course (which ain't cheap, but can be rapidly recouped, granted).

Generally the average rating Diver joins with the intention of serving around 5 or 6 years which, given an SITP of 10 months, followed by 2.5 years return of service & 12 months statutary notice to quit, sounds about right. If they didn't leave, we'd only need bother recruiting them every 18 years.

As there is no envisaged cessation of the requirement of a mine clearance diving operational capability in the RN, it's a bit difficult to make logic of the unqualified rumour. It is again worth pointing out that Diving Officers are a completely different kettle of "swimming things" to rating Divers and it may well be the case that the management qualified capabilities of the branch is under review- however there is only your mate's related musings that I've seen in black and white on this topic.
 

tiddlyoggy

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Ninja,
You old cynic you! At least this time you've been more tactful in saying that I'm talking b******s. Sadly this time I am only passing on hearsay rather than stating something I know to be true, but it will be interesting to see what this other bloke has to say when/if I see him next week.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
tiddlyoggy said:
Ninja,
You old cynic you! At least this time you've been more tactful in saying that I'm talking b******s. Sadly this time I am only passing on hearsay rather than stating something I know to be true, but it will be interesting to see what this other bloke has to say when/if I see him next week.

He could indeed be correct, but it's simply that there's been nothing official yet - always a bad sign, admittedly! :thumright:
 

Kyle1234c

Newbie
Thanks for all the input. Given your comments that an MCDO is more of a management figure rather than a practical one, I think i will forget that route. I am open to the route of joining as a rating and it is one I will consider, I certainly do not have my heart set on the officer route and realize with the growing number of people with degrees it would not even be that uncommon for me to join as a rating. It really is just a matter of finances. Although I wouldn't give back my university years for anything in the world, the difference in pay and the experience I could've earned already is slightly irritating. Having said that job satisfaction is much more important to me that money, I'm certainly not looking to become a wage slave anytime soon. I think I will give the hard slog that is becoming an officer in the Royal Marines a go. If I simply don't have the leadership qualities necessary, then I will look at becoming a commando or rating.
 

edchannah

Midshipman
Lamri, your comments regarding the relevance of a history degree strike me as somewhat ignorant. History and degrees similar to it are designed to develop core skills such as reasoning, analysis and and ability to form ones own opinion based on relevant evidence. All of these skills are directly applicable to role of a Royal Navy officer and for that matter any career. Further to this the high level of academic attainment required to achieve a high mark in a history degree cannot be overlooked. If it were the case that all that is required to get a good degree is the ability to cram it would be possible to argue that those who didn't have a good degree are simply lazy and should not be in the armed forces. ( Please note that this is not my opinion) Science based qualifications at an undergraduate level are far more about learning facts than humanities subjects which teach you to find information out for yourself and form your own opinions.

I draw your attention to Lt Col Stuart Tootal who led 3 Para in their 2006 tour of Afghanistan. He received a degree in History and Politics before joining the army and then, whilst in the army, studied for a masters in International Relations and a masters in war studies. If the army did not deem such qualifications relevant why would they pay for him to do study for them. History is extremely relevant to the armed forces for without understanding the past how can one understand the present.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
For those aspiring MI5, MI6 & DIS operatives a degree in military history is also good starting point for those budding James Bond types.

I jest not.
 
So edchannah, by your somewhat strange reasoning, if one hasn't got a degree in History or a similar subject, then one hasn't developed core skills in reasoning, analysis and an ability to form ones own opinion based on relevant evidence? And you're calling ME ignorant?

Hmm, okaaay then :roll:
 

Kyle1234c

Newbie
Ninja_Stoker said:
For those aspiring MI5, MI6 & DIS operatives a degree in military history is also good starting point for those budding James Bond types.

I jest not.

I remember my lecturer pointing out the MI5/6 route as a possible career choice. I studied medieval history which really relies on some intense studying of the primary sources to come to a conclusion. He said that a lot of those in SIS were medieval historians in particular due to the detective and analytical skills required. Haven't really given it much thought myself, was never a fan of James Bond really!
 

edchannah

Midshipman
Lamri if you read carefully you will realize that at no point did I say that a history degree was the only way of developing such skills. There are many ways of gaining and developing such abilities, however, in my opinion a history degree, or any academic degree for that matter, is an extremely effective way of doing it. It strikes me that if the elite organisations charged with the defense of Britain and her interests, namely Mi5 and Mi6, value such a qualification why shouldn't the Royal Navy.
Once again I draw your attention to those individuals who have studied history and gone on to do great things:
Sir Chris Patten
John Prescott
Gordon Brown ( bad example)
Louis Theroux
Michael Palin

Oh and not forgetting Sacha Baron Cohen.
 

MotorMan

Newbie
edchannah said:
Sir Chris Patten
John Prescott
Gordon Brown ( bad example)
Louis Theroux
Michael Palin

Oh and not forgetting Sacha Baron Cohen.

Archimedes, Brunel and Telford: hang your heads in shame. We of the engineering persuasion are not fit to stand in the company of such titans... ^~
 
Lamri said:
So edchannah, by your somewhat strange reasoning, if one hasn't got a degree in History or a similar subject, then one hasn't developed core skills in reasoning, analysis and an ability to form ones own opinion based on relevant evidence? And you're calling ME ignorant?

Hmm, okaaay then :roll:

Just remember Lammers: History students LEARN these skills whereas Stokers are BORN with these executive attributes! :thumright:
 

edchannah

Midshipman
Touche on the old Brunel, but sadly Archimedes was just a genius and did not have the opportunity to study an engineering degree nor a history degree, though he probably inventing both. I was just wanting to point out the worth of humanities and "arts" based degrees not just to the military but to any career choice. So to the men you mentioned, and I would like to add Newton and Darwin to your list, I will respond with Shakespeare, Dickens, Churchill, Plato, Locke...
 
edchannah said:
Lamri if you read carefully you will realize that at no point did I say that a history degree was the only way of developing such skills. .

And if you read carefully you will see that I didn't say you had :bball:
 
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