Chinese aircraft carrier Shi Lang, ex-Varyag

flymo

War Hero
When the Germans fire, the British duck;
When the British fire, the Germans duck;
When the Italians fire, nobody ducks;
And when the Americans fire, EVERYBODY ducks. :)

The Americans' constant, self-perpetuating fear of Communism, as instigated by the likes of Senator McCarthy, fuelled the American war machine throughout the Cold War, making them the world's international police force with the likes of the UK, France and so on backing them up. As "Reds under the Bed" are no longer a threat, they're turning their attention to other countries they deem to be "problematic".

This is my opinion, backed up with research about the Kalten Krieg as researched from a German POV, and as such, is probably wrong.

Was the "reds under the bed" millarky in the 50's all because Capitalism is petrified of Communism? Scared of loosing the odd buck or two eh?
As an Opensource Software fanboy, I took great delight in Steve (smell all my money) Ballmer calling us Communists. From a die hard Capitalist, that must have been the worst insult he could think of as the Opensource movement of sharing software is a complete anathema to his way of financial thinking.
 

Magda

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Was the "reds under the bed" millarky in the 50's all because Capitalism is petrified of Communism? Scared of loosing the odd buck or two eh?
As an Opensource Software fanboy, I took great delight in Steve (smell all my money) Ballmer calling us Communists. From a die hard Capitalist, that must have been the worst insult he could think of as the Opensource movement of sharing software is a complete anathema to his way of financial thinking.

There was an element of Communism being a threat to the American way of life, blah blah, but one of the many reasons fear of Communism became so widespread and virulent was because of the likes of this guy:

[video=youtube;8iGGjGSdqf8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGGjGSdqf8&feature=related[/video]

Senator McCarthy went on what can only be described as the rampage against ANYONE who had ever showed an interest in Communism - and a fair few who didn't. He was unrelenting and undiscerning in who he attacked. Somehow he managed to capture the collective American interest and convinced them that there were "Commies" everywhere, undermining the American way of life.

The discovery of a few Communist spies in the US, such as the Rosenbergs just added fuel to the anti-Communist fire. There was a lot more to it than this, but in its infancy, the fear of Communism was bred by the activities of a small number of the administration who saw a bandwagon and jumped on it.

End of Lecture. Homework due on Thursday :-D
 

pg55555

Lantern Swinger
................... but you can't have them if you regularly supply non state nutters with stuff to kill civilians and service personel .............

The US has done plenty of that since WW2.

Cuban Missile Crisis = the last gasp of US Nuclear Supremacy, before the USSR got its Strategic missiles going in quantity. What the USSR wanted to do broke NO law or Treaty and merely mirrored what the USA had done many years earlier in Turkey and Italy (and arguably the UK ????). The only country that broke any laws was the USA.

McCarthyism is shorthand for the rest of the world to laugh at the American supposed devotion to "Free Speech" (both then and now).

---------------

Strangely enough I do not regard myself as "anti-American", I do appreciate a lot of the good things they have done or helped get done. However, I do not believe in mindless patriotism or re-writing or whitewashing history, and I am truely sorry that the whole of America seems to believe that history is the myth that they tell themselves instead of someting approch fact.

A bit of sanity is a lot better than the mindless waving of flags and turning off of brains.

.
 

Topstop

War Hero
There was an element of Communism being a threat to the American way of life, blah blah, but one of the many reasons fear of Communism became so widespread and virulent was because of the likes of this guy:

[video=youtube;8iGGjGSdqf8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGGjGSdqf8&feature=related[/video]

Senator McCarthy went on what can only be described as the rampage against ANYONE who had ever showed an interest in Communism - and a fair few who didn't. He was unrelenting and undiscerning in who he attacked. Somehow he managed to capture the collective American interest and convinced them that there were "Commies" everywhere, undermining the American way of life.

The discovery of a few Communist spies in the US, such as the Rosenbergs just added fuel to the anti-Communist fire. There was a lot more to it than this, but in its infancy, the fear of Communism was bred by the activities of a small number of the administration who saw a bandwagon and jumped on it.

End of Lecture. Homework due on Thursday :-D

tumblr_lafy6vVEe01qc9mja.jpg

A diversion to keep it quiet
 
You guys seem far more educated than old Stan and I won't offer an opinion in either direction. But from my own personal perspective I watched with disbelief from my liitle hole underground in Northwood while the Serbs massacred thousands of innocent civillians, we (Europeans did fcuk all just stood by and watched likewise the UN. it wasn't until uncle Sam got involved and provided the momentum to stop the slaughter and sort the cnuts out did we find a solution. This was only 50 years after the carnage in Europe during WW2 if the boys from accross the pond had'nt got involved the good old full english breakfast would have included Bratwurst, (albeit with a bit of encouragement from our slanty eyed small penis boys over in the Pacific).
Say what you want but guess what whenever Stan has been in the firing line thank fcuk the yanks were there to give us their support.
So yank haters I see were your coming from but when the shit hits the fan the sight of a US Battle group coming over the horizon is a very nice one. They are by no means perfect but I for one would rather be in their pocket than the chinkey chinamans.
If they hadn't given us the new AIM Sidewinder to try out in 82 Stans little baby might not have been around to join the pusser.
Monty come into my local Legion and I will stand beside you you wear your medals and I'll wear mine, bet off the fcuking bandstand mate still love you - but what happened some redneck ream your arse while you were pissed up in the mess at Culdrose??
 

labrum

War Hero
You guys seem far more educated than old Stan and I won't offer an opinion in either direction. But from my own personal perspective I watched with disbelief from my liitle hole underground in Northwood while the Serbs massacred thousands of innocent civillians, we (Europeans did fcuk all just stood by and watched likewise the UN. it wasn't until uncle Sam got involved and provided the momentum to stop the slaughter and sort the cnuts out did we find a solution. This was only 50 years after the carnage in Europe during WW2 if the boys from accross the pond had'nt got involved the good old full english breakfast would have included Bratwurst, (albeit with a bit of encouragement from our slanty eyed small penis boys over in the Pacific).
Say what you want but guess what whenever Stan has been in the firing line thank fcuk the yanks were there to give us their support.
So yank haters I see were your coming from but when the shit hits the fan the sight of a US Battle group coming over the horizon is a very nice one. They are by no means perfect but I for one would rather be in their pocket than the chinkey chinamans.
If they hadn't given us the new AIM Sidewinder to try out in 82 Stans little baby might not have been around to join the pusser.
Monty come into my local Legion and I will stand beside you you wear your medals and I'll wear mine, bet off the fcuking bandstand mate still love you - but what happened some redneck ream your arse while you were pissed up in the mess at Culdrose??

Have you had a lot of Japanese cock Stan?
 

admiralscruff

Lantern Swinger
Cuban Missile Crisis = the last gasp of US Nuclear Supremacy, before the USSR got its Strategic missiles going in quantity. What the USSR wanted to do broke NO law or Treaty and merely mirrored what the USA had done many years earlier in Turkey and Italy (and arguably the UK ????). The only country that broke any laws was the USA.

No laws were broken by either side in the siting of nuclear weapons, but it was the blockade of Cuba that could be considered to be illegal by some, because it is an act of war without a declaration of war, and that act was an unbelievably risky thing to do on the part of the Americans.

Another example of recklessness on the part of the West is ABLE ARCHER 83, a NATO exercise that climaxed with a 'dress rehearsal' for nuclear missile launch, the US carried out an exercise just after the Korean airline shoot-down that, intentionally or not, terrified the Soviets and pushed them to the brink of nuclear war, because they intercepted the transmissions and thought they were real, not an exercise, due to a mix of paranoia, more hostile USSR-US relations and a background where the US carried out operations designed to intimidate the Russians.

That's a bit of a tangent, but to sum up, a key theme on both sides of the cold war, is recklessness, intentional or not, especially considering what was at stake.
 
Last edited:

Tomahawk

Lantern Swinger
No laws were broken by either side in the siting of nuclear weapons, but it was the blockade of Cuba that could be considered to be illegal by some, because it is an act of war without a declaration of war, and that act was an unbelievably risky thing to do on the part of the Americans.

Another example of recklessness on the part of the West is ABLE ARCHER 83, a NATO exercise that climaxed with a 'dress rehearsal' for nuclear missile launch, the US carried out an exercise just after the Korean airline shoot-down that, intentionally or not, terrified the Soviets and pushed them to the brink of nuclear war, because they intercepted the transmissions and thought they were real, not an exercise, due to a mix of paranoia, more hostile USSR-US relations and a background where the US carried out operations designed to intimidate the Russians.

That's a bit of a tangent, but to sum up, a key theme on both sides of the cold war, is recklessness, intentional or not, especially considering what was at stake.

Having done the Cold War at A Level and indeed my Uni course is very much focused on aspects like this, I can say it wasn't just the US that indulged in this type of thing. One quote that sticks in my mind was that of Khrushchev saying that the USSR was "pulling [nuclear] missiles off the production line like sausages". Of course all of this is perspective, I'm sure that during the Cold War, attitudes were different.
 

admiralscruff

Lantern Swinger
Indeed, I could have extended that with a discussion on how the Soviets were little better, pointing at the Prague Spring of '68 and Hungary in 1956, but I didn't want to stray too far off topic
 
G

guestm

Guest
Indeed, I could have extended that with a discussion on how the Soviets were little better, pointing at the Prague Spring of '68 and Hungary in 1956, but I didn't want to stray too far off topic

You are the dullest human being living.
 
Top