Children in the Dock

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Potential_Officer, Sep 3, 2007.

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  1. In the week that we learnt that almost 3,000 crimes were committed by under 10's, and therefore can never be tried, including a worrying 66 sex offences, the Head of the Criminal Bar Association has said that trying youths (i.e. those between 10 and 18) in adult courts, which only happens for the most serious of cases, is wrong.

    I strongly disagree with her, the youths need to be made aware of the serious situation that they are in (after all this only happens in the most serious of cases), based upon the fact that they are no longer being treated as a child, they committed an adult offence and as which should be tried as an adult, it might well put the fear of god into them never to do it again. Obviously I am not suggesting that we get rid of Borstals, there is no way an under 18 should be sent to an adult prison, but they should be tried in an adult court with the full powers of one.

    It is time then to get them out of crime before they enter into a lifetime of it, and perhaps by setting the example to them at a comparatively early age that if you break the law you will suffer the consequences it might just sort them out.
  2. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    I wasn't pleased to hear that the judge and lawyers in the recent trial of the young scrotes who killed the old boy playing cricket, didn't wear their gowns and wigs so as not to intimidate the poor lads. WTF? Court should be an intimidating experience.
  3. Old enough to do the crime old enough to serve the time.

    Lock em up take away the social payments while inside and put the shites up them while inside.

    Of course all this is fantasyland it will never happen and the shite will rule the streets for ever and ever AMEN
  4. Two points - in the last 3 weeks (much less the last 8 months), we've seen over a dozen stabbings/shootings where teenagers the culprits. It's time the "too young to know" brigade swallowed their own rubbish and for us to put them on trial in the same manner as adults. This would, of course, require the UK law to recognize majority age at a lower level then it is now. Personally, I reckon 12 is old enough to know right from wrong. Second, it is time we got rid of the ludicrous "cannot be named for legal reasons". You did the crime, you were tried, you were found guilty. Why on Earth should your name not be public knowledge??? Too many "kids" are getting away with murder (literally, in some cases).
  5. Their shitty parents should be in the dock alongside them.
  6. To a degree, I agree with that. However, I also think (and this is going to sound touchy-feely) that society as a whole is also to blame. Too many blame "teachers" for not instilling discipline, yet schools have had all tools for disciplining removed. Parents, meanwhile, (at least those not living off benefit) are forced to work to keep a level of income that enables them to live, reducing their "face-time" with their kids. Neighbours and Joe Public is now of an attitude of "I'm not getting involved" and "it ain't my problem". The point is, to paraphrase Hilary Clinton (and I can't believe I'm saying this), it takes a village to raise a child. Think back to when you were a kid: would you act in the same way as kids nowadays? How do you think your elders would have reacted if you said/did what kids today are saying/doing (now I sound like on of Harry Enfield's old gits)?
  7. Down in the Blogs there is a question asking 'what has happened to this country'. The likes of stuck up, over paid, politically correct legislation inventing ********* like Sally O'Neill are the major cause of our problems.

    These kids know right from wrong and have done since they sat on the potty and it's total bollocks that they be treated with kid gloves.

    If you commit an adult crime then you get treated and tried like an adult.

    If you punish them accordingly they might not turn into the crowds of little shits we have roaming the streets today.
  8. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Believe me, it is. I've attended many times (as a witness, I hasten to add), and I felt like the guilty fecker, even when they've only asked me to swear an oath! 8O :lol:
  9. When I was at primary school, we were told that the age of reason was 7, as we could be expected to tell the difference between right and wrong. Granted, since then this theory has been proved wrong by the treatment of James Bulger's killers who, instead of rotting in prison have been released to have the life that they denied to James and his parents. Ditto the dross that murdered Philip and Stephen Lawrence (only just noticed that coincidence!).

    I'm sick to death of society's scum being accorded rights that they deny to others. But then, I'd string 'em up without a second thought, so I'm obviously unstable.
  10. Do you believe that the purpose of jail is to rehabilitate or merely to punish?
  11. Its my belief that serving time in jail is both a punishment and should if used by the prisoner and authorities correctly also rehabilitate.
    However with so many prisoners re offending the rehabilitation part does not seem to work. In the case of persistent re offending prison should be used purely as a punishment. No soft options, hard work and spartan conditions. It should be made so unattractive that prisoners fear jail rather than accept it as an occupational hazard
  12. Easy, it is both, you need to be punished for breaking the law, but at the same time, if we do not provide the means for them to break out of crime then we have failed that person, and society for that matter, as it is society who would suffer if we let out a person without the skills to move on in their life away from crime.

  13. That I agree with. I know a chap who has always been in trouble and on his last session of doing time, came out with a Microsoft certificate and an IT qualification. He is doing well now so he wont be going back inside.

    Don't just lock them up, give them some training and incentive not to return.
  14. Ok, so taking that as a premise, should we assume that once a prison sentence is complete, that an ex-con is just that and "ex-" con and is now a part of society?
  15. It seems to be more of a failure to enforce what is already on the books, we have parole people who still today, blindly allow potential repeat offenders free.

    It is a total lack of willingness to ensure that all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed, most silly servants only care about getting through the day, ensuring their time is marked for that pension at the end.

    Or they make believe they are doing a good job, "quotas" top management sits and dreams up these redicolous numbers or targets, all the while politicians rob Peter to pay Paul without upsetting their constituents.

    The youth crime over here is just as bad as yours over there, maybe not on the same level, but here in the last week we had 4 security guards stabbed in the back by a 16yr old at a back to high school dance, in the same week 3 females under 15 beat a 60 yr old with metal table legs to within an inch of her life.

    I hear all the time as well about the no name thing, WTF, they should be named and shamed, and they should be tried as adults, most definitely where violence is concerned.

    You may not like the US system, but they send people to jail for very long periods of time, and the reason I think they do this, is because a lot of the judicial positions are filled by the ballot, so if a judge running for a position is seen as hard on offenders and the majority of the public like that, then he gets in, same with the District Attorneys.I would like to see our system go to this one instead of "Old Boy" appointments... :hockey:
  16. My point is, if prison is supposed to rehabilitate, then at the end of a sentence a person walks out of jail a member of society and is justly entitled to the same rights as the rest of us. If this is not the case, then they should not have been released. In which case, the problem lies with a) over-short sentences (and there are a myriad of reasons for that) and b) prison doesn't rehabilitate (for whatever reason). Either way, the problem isn't with the application of human rights to ex-cons, it's the prison system that stinks.

    The Human Rights Act, HASAWA and the DPA, are the 3 most misquoted, misunderstood and ill-applied pieces of legislation on the statute books.
  17. Firstly no-one should be released who is still a threat to society, that just makes a mockery of the system, it shows that prison has failed to protect society and failed that convict.

    The Government has failed to prepare for the increasing numbers of inmates in this country, and are wholly at fault for the recent almost mass releases, and keeping prisoners in inappropriate cells, where they cannot be rehabilitated, which is doing no-one any favours. "Tough on crime, Tough on the Causes of Crime." I see he failed to do either, which links nicely to "Education, Education, Education," another failure, and another reason why so many children leave school unable to read or write properly, and therefore much more drawn to a life of crime.

    If you fail to educate children in their responsibilities and give them oppourtunities, it is almost inevitable they will be drawn to crime, if you fail to show them that they will not be punished for doing so, you make it certain.
  18. The punishment is the restriction of liberty, but I'd agree that it provides an opportunity to deliver rehabilitation opportunities.

    One of the issues is that the prison system is so over-full that rehabilitation opportunities are rarely delivered. I read a paper recently which highlighted stats, a couple of years out of date, which indicated that amongst young offenders the effective literacy levels were about 20%, by age, but that literacy and numeracy training was rarely delivered to the most in need because of over-crowding, low staff levels etc.

    One of the most significant issues with reducing recidivism is that without adequate levels of literacy and numeracy the individuals are virtually unemployable, hence likely to re-offend as the only way to gain an income.
  19. Define please?
  20. In the case of premeditated murder, absolutely not. The decision taken to kill, where there is no "crime of passion" element, should preclude the murderer from ever being released, hence my belief in the death penalty. I do not believe in God, or hell, but I would like to hope that the detritus that causes so much grief to parents, families, friends and society in general should suffer the proper consequences of their decision.

    Ian Huntley and his ilk have no place in my world.

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