CHANDLERS; CAPTURE - FREEDOM (both Chandler threads merged)

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by angrydoc, Nov 13, 2009.

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  1. More bad publicity for the RN

    Today's Times:
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6915658.ece

    Regarding the capture of the naive couple who went sailing off the coast of Somalia. The RN "failed to act", even though it was an RFA (WAVE KNIGHT) that was present.

    The RN needs to get it's shit sorted out. This is the second RoE story recently (CORNWALL being the other one) and if we're going to crow on about how great we are at fighting piracy then we need to get on with it instead of watching it happen.

    I know it is difficult when captives are at gunpoint but I fail to see how something couldn't have been done.

    Another thing which will probably get me flamed here - it was an RFA and not an RN ship. I know the message from on high is that we're all the one RN and the same but we are blatantly not. If we need more warships out there then we need to say that to the MoD and stop making do with whatever we have that is vaguely grey in colour.

    This has really pissed me off!
     
  2. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Hmm, a difficult call: would be the reaction if they had opened and managed to kill them both? We have v limited long range, precision anti-personnel weapons in the RN/RFA. We could open a wider debate about NMT, but in this specific case I think the right, but hard, call was made. To be blunt, their freedom will be brought at some point....
     
  3. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    The RN could save the world from cancer and the papers would still find something to whinge about. The Army is the in thing at the moment and don't you forget it! Ain't no ships in the Ghan!

    If some fcuknuckle and his misses decide to go sailing off the coast of Somalia, then good for them. Regardless of what the mob do, if the press want to play silly fcukers then they will. I would've thought someone of your education and experience would've realised this by now.
     
  4. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    I agree with Alf... imagine the headlines if the shooting had started.... and they got killed..... 'Friendly fire'.. again !
     
  5. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    angry, very angrydoc wrote
    The same Wave Knight that got stuck in in April

    Perhaps they arrived too late to have a tactical advantage - pirates and Chandlers too close to each other to let loose with the GPMGs. The capability to conduct opposed boardings resides with SF, not the RFA, not FPGRM, not the RNR Force Protection Team, not the ship's RM detachment, not the NAAFI Manager, not the stoker who did the All Arms Commando Course and the Killick Reg who pump weights together and some assorted volunteers, good lads who have all MacNab's books.

    There was a Radio 4 programme on yesterday that told of a Belgian war canoe gave technical assistance to a vessel that they knew (but didn't have the evidence) was run by a bunch of pirates.

    I thought we'd already covered their nav track - nowhere near. The pirates are developing balls and global reach. They'll be in the Solent by summer.
     
  6. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    I do hope so, then someone might have the balls to do something about them.
     
  7. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Rosina Carley wrote
    There is no lack of balls, just an excess of legal aspects. Dealing with pirates is a police action, there is only so much navies are allowed do and only so many places we can do it.

    And having cheered the Indian Navy for shooting up a pirate vessel, we were all a bit red faced when it turned out that the hostage crew were on board.
     
  8. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Do you think there would be an excess of legal aspects if there were people taking people hostage in the Solent?

    I hope not because the POS often goes fishing off Hayling Island!
     
  9. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    I accept the media will manipulate things, but we are not helping ourselves are we?

    I also understand the legal issues but if the Government was serious about things then a couple of cushy meetings would smooth those waters. Look how friendly we are with Libya these days - it can be done.

    Sending the RN (and the RFA for that matter) to protect against pirates when in reality there is very little they can do will do nothing but make us look weak in the eyes of the pirates and the UK public.
     
  10. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    But Libya is - now - run by a democratically elected government, one whom is probably running a not entirely hidden agenda by negotiating with the West (in my opinion).

    The Somali pirates, however, are going to be difficult to communicate with because they'll view the RN/USN as an external oppresive force trying to control them much like a court or tribunal. They are not accustomed to communicating diplomatically, having lived a life in which carrying an AK47 on your shoulder just to get water in the morning is the norm.

    These pirates most likely believe that if they fail in this stand-off and the UK/US doesn't kill them, their bosses back on the host ship or even their families will. Because they're used to following orders, these pirates will likely feel powerless and therefore negotiating is something beyond their life experience.

    It is quite possible they chew Khat, an addictive stimulant popular in east Africa. The withdrawal symptoms are irritability, restlessness and anxiety which can complicate negotiations.

    Things may be further complicated if other pirates arrive at the scene, particularly if their boss is among them.

    Too many variable potential outcomes if we treat them like a representatives of an elected body, and sadly the only language they will understand (and learn to respect) is armed retaliation, unfortunately... :shock: :oops:
     
  11. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Fighting piracy on the open sea is what the RN should be about, not supporting a f***wit government in pursuit of an unwinnable war with Islam in a country whose people does not even want us. Granted, we're the f***wits who voted the f***wit government into office but, as proved in Glaswege this very day, we still haven't grasped the truth - 60% of the 30% who turned out (I make that about 20% of the electorate) voted some skinny little boy into office to take over from Lord Martin of Thievery as a Labour MP.
     
  12. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Have to say another glum day for the Navy with regard public perception, informed or otherwise.

    Spot the difference:

    1. It's difficult to retrospectively head-off a press announcement that states the "Navy" were powerless to act to stop the British citizens being kidnapped as they only had a lightly-armed ship in the area.

    2. By contrast, recently the French Navy supposedly knocked ten-bells out of a bunch of pirates that mistook them for a merchantman (their equivalent of an RFA).

    Different circumstances, different relationship with the press.
     
  13. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Any one in Somalia who lives in any thing better that a mud hut, bomb the fcuker. :evil: Eventualy they will get the message
     
  14. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Believe me, the ROE's for piracy are horrendous.

    And if the crew of the RFA were of the same standard as the ones I had the misfortune to travel to Gulf War 2 with, then the pirates would laugh in their faces before doing exactly as they wished.
     
  15. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Surely the SBS should have developed a plan for this eventuality, they are after all not on land yet, they are on a hijacked merchant vessel.

    The Americans and French have both attempted rescues in the past year or so, maybe its time we showed some muscle?? Just a thought.
     
  16. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    AND just how many witnesses are around in the middle of the Arabian Sea?

    Oh yeah bound to be some fluffy WEM wiv his mobile phone pix Like on the Traf

    Jack McH
     
  17. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Would you prefer to see the entire ship's company tried for committing atrocities or just have the CO carry the can? As you know, "I was only obeying orders" hasn't really washed since Nuremberg (or Srebrenica or Abu Ghraib for that matter) and we are supposed to be the 'good guys' despite sometimes getting stick for it from the media and more ignorant members of the public. Here's what happened on one occasion when a warship took 'robust' action against the Somali pirates:

    Pirate 'mothership' was really Thai fishing boat:

    As it transpired, 15 innocent crew members perished in this one incident. Can you imagine the less than favourable headlines if an RN ship had done this? With friends like that, who needs enemies? We've given the Yanks enough of a hard time for 'blue on blue' engagements so why be so keen to risk the same?
     
  18. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Fear Ye Not!!

    Blenkinnsop has it all in hand, as related by our Bro In ARRSE at:

    http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=137912/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html

    Go read - 'Tis Classic
     
  19. Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    Please see comment under 'Civil Serpents bonus scheme'--- More Blenkinsop.
     
  20. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Re: More bad publicity for the RN

    One of the French attempts (and the French are as premier league at this sort of thing) resulted in the death of a hostage.

    Those dissing the RFA would do well to remember (or learn for the first time) that in CORPORATE, they won 2 DSOs, 2 DSCs, a posthumous GM and several other awards. Not bad for a relative handful of civvies who don't march. Oh, and 11 lost their lives. The RFA aren't as scruffy as cavalry officers.

    Ill-informed speculation, personal grudges and general rants (bomb Somali mud huts with a car in the drive) have no place in Current Affairs.
     

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