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Cdr Doc Golden and Winching

scouse

War Hero
Just read this article. During the 79 Fastnet sailing race of 140 casualties of which 15 died, some of these were found to be conscious, in the water when the SAR arrived. Never survived the rescue, a phenomenon not fully understood at the time, but later known as post rescue collapse. The normal practice at the time was the vertical single lift strop.This allowed all the blood to suddenly shift back to the extremities,the shock of this in some cases was catastrophic. Later after a study by Cdr Doc Golden,and some SAR divers, on cold water immersion. The two strop method, or Hydrostatic lift , would become the norm from water,especially cold water. One strop placed round the shoulders and one under the knees. Stopping the effect of post rescue collapse
 

trelawney126

War Hero
Nice man CDR Golden used to turn up at sickbays carrying roll of insulating materiel, far before the days of rescue blankets and that tin foil crap. Learnt a lot from him and all put to good use.
Edited to add wasn't in F. St . C.Golden. Standing by to be corrected
 
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Waspie

War Hero
The double strop lift was just starting to be used when I left in 92. I was an instructor on 703, (training Obs and SMAC ratings on winching techniques), even then I never taught the double strop method. The problems of death after immersion was known but the practice was only brought in as a standard method of rescue from water in the early 90's.

SAR diver recovery as you remember Scouse was with the diver sat in the strop!
 

scouse

War Hero
Nice man CDR Golden used to turn up at sickbays carrying roll of insulating materiel, far before the days of rescue blankets and that tin foil crap. Learnt a lot from him and all put to good use.
Edited to add wasn't in F. St . C.Golden. Standing by to be corrected
F for Frank in the book!!
 

poma

Badgeman
Was involved in some of this research whilst stationed at Seafield Park with Dr. Golden
Mainly 25 man liferaft, solar stills, A/C self righting/inflating lifejackets and kite design and flying,
 

BE19Pilot

Badgeman
We carried the inflatable leg splints for just that very reason that was discussed earlier in the thread and trained to identify the signs of acute hypothermia and shock.
 
Id heard a lot of the knowledge gained about hypothermia was from horrendous experiments carried out on inmates in the nazi death camps.
 

Waspie

War Hero
Id heard a lot of the knowledge gained about hypothermia was from horrendous experiments carried out on inmates in the nazi death camps.

That is what we were informed at Seafield Park on crewies course. (Home then of the Naval Institute Medicine). Seafield based naval docs conducted their own more scientific experiments on cold water survival in the tank they had there.
 
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BE19Pilot

Badgeman
Nothing worse than showering down and standing at attention and trying not to shiver on the pool deck with an instructor yelling in your ear...
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
That is what we were informed at Seafield Park on crewies course. (Home then of the Naval Institute Medicine). Seafield based naval docs conducted their own more scientific experiments on cold water survival in the tank they had there.

They also experimented on me and several other Submariners at Lee on Solent 1964/65. When they were doing trials on the Submarine immersion suit vs one man aircrew dingy. It was bloody cold, we did 3 hours in the swimming pool for the suit and the same again for the dingy. The water was just above freezing and had a refridgerated wind blowing across it.

This was in the pool where they had a dummy ejector seat rig so that the could immerse pilots. They did high altitude oxygen failure trials there as well.

Only perks for us was a neat tot when you came out of the water and another in the evening. Also got 50p for returning the radio transmitter which you swallowed and which gave the internal body tempeture.

Survival time in the water unprotected was reckoned to be in the region of three minutes, mind you they gave you a very through medical before throwing you in.
 

MG Maniac

War Hero
Frank Golden ... Thats a blast from the past!

Yeah ... lot of the Hypothermia data came from the Germans from WW2 ... they had a ready supply of victims ...sorry subjects ... in such places as Belsen and the like. Lots of different experiments like how low can they freeze someone before they died ... how much blood can someone lose before they died etc etc. Dr Mengles was a very inquisitive man!

Can remember in the 70's doing Air Medical Training Courses and the like at INM and I seem to remember pilots / aircrew (I think) being put in one man dingys and moored out in Haslar Lake doiing survival training or wet dingy drills or something similar.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
So who tested the capacities for solid and liquid waste in the nappies issued with the Mk 8 & Mk 10 SEIE??
 

MG Maniac

War Hero
So who tested the capacities for solid and liquid waste in the nappies issued with the Mk 8 & Mk 10 SEIE??

Dunno ... was never my part of ship! Probably designed by a bean counter somewhere who worked out on a slide rule just how much waste could be absorbed into the smallest recepticle possible .... and then halved it! :D
 
They also experimented on me and several other Submariners at Lee on Solent 1964/65. When they were doing trials on the Submarine immersion suit vs one man aircrew dingy. It was bloody cold, we did 3 hours in the swimming pool for the suit and the same again for the dingy. The water was just above freezing and had a refridgerated wind blowing across it.

This was in the pool where they had a dummy ejector seat rig so that the could immerse pilots. They did high altitude oxygen failure trials there as well.

Only perks for us was a neat tot when you came out of the water and another in the evening. Also got 50p for returning the radio transmitter which you swallowed and which gave the internal body tempeture.

Survival time in the water unprotected was reckoned to be in the region of three minutes, mind you they gave you a very through medical before throwing you in.

So you come out of freezing cold water, and they give you about the worst thing they could in the circumstances?:crazy:
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
So you come out of freezing cold water, and they give you about the worst thing they could in the circumstances?:crazy:


They also threw you into a bath of boiling hot water, mind you I was so bloody frozen I didn't notice. The internal tempeture went rocketing up when the rum went down.

I stayed at Lee after doing my two runs and attended those in the water that came on after me. We had to drag at least two out very quickly when they stopped breathing and went a peculiar shade of blue. Still no one died.

From memory two Commander Drs. one RN and the other USN.
 

Waspie

War Hero
Bull shit bit.

I remember watching the films of the experiments on the loss of body heat and how quickly it drains from you. After that, when I dressed to go flying I always dressed for the water temperature and not the air temp. It might be a warm sunny day ashore or on board. But ever round the UK, the water temperature only went through an average 6 degree temperature change over the year.

Can't remember the figures now, but even when the water temp was at 15 deg C, the trigger point to move from immersion suits to coveralls when flying over water, the sea survival times were small. (Around 15 to 30 minutes). Just about the time it may take a rescue helicopter to get to you!!!!

So all the brave soles who flew in their skiddies - you were welcome to it! Me - I looked like Michelin Man.:angel12:
 
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