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Cash to tackle student drop-outs

I am not in favour of fixed streaming between academic and craft because it was wrong with the 11+/Quallie and it would be just as wrong at 13. there needs to be a flexible approach to the balance between academica nd craft work as this will help both get the best out of each little blighter and at the same time help maintain the interest of the majority. It is equally possible that working in caft areas will actually stimulate the interest in more advanced academic study as it's utility becomes apparent, I am certain for example if my technical drawing had progressed into draughtmanship my interest in maths may well have become more stimulated rather than being just a required chore.
 

slim

War Hero
I think that most kids by the age of 13 have some idea of the route which they wish to take. With many it is fairly obvious that they will never be the next Einstein, however their craft skills may be extremely good. This is the type of pupil who would benefit from being transferred from the GCSE syllabus to a more work related program. Maths and English would be kept be taught in a more basic way.
This education change would not be compulsory but run in tandem with the standard system. Pupils wishing to go down the Artisan route would be assessed to ensure that the choice was the correct one.
 

pingbosun

Lantern Swinger
KLNA-Cessna-Jockey said:
I think to answer TDs question, "why aren't English Unis doing this?", I think the answer is quite simple.

We, the English tax payer, are subsidising the Scots so of course they can under cut us - we give them the bloody money
to do it. If we kept it and ploughed it into our own (English) resources and let them have the devolvement they seek (therefore devolve the budgeting to them also) we would probably be a lot better off this side of the border.


G'day KLNA-Cessna-Jockey.

Sounds as though you got too much oxygen in your helmet the last time that you were up there mate, playing with whatever you boys do with your toys.

It definately seems that it has shut your brain down and put your asre into over drive. as that's where I am sure your quote came from. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Why don't you read Hansard and find out exactly how much money Scotland gets from your miserable tight fisted "Parliament" :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You only need to look at how they have treated the RN in the years after the war, to see how they are with money, and if they can't afford to have a decent navy, what chance do us poor Scots have of getting a fair crack o' the whip?? Less hope than a snaw ba' in hell I'm b****y sure.

I think that you will find that as the oil revenue lessens, so will the determination of keeping Scotland, under "Jack-Boots" of Whitehall.Then when we get full self government, we can see who is the poor cousins in the U.*****************K. lol. (as it's certainly not united..

Beam him down Scotty, back to planet Earth.

pingie
 
slim said:
I think that most kids by the age of 13 have some idea of the route which they wish to take. With many it is fairly obvious that they will never be the next Einstein, however their craft skills may be extremely good. This is the type of pupil who would benefit from being transferred from the GCSE syllabus to a more work related program. Maths and English would be kept be taught in a more basic way.
This education change would not be compulsory but run in tandem with the standard system. Pupils wishing to go down the Artisan route would be assessed to ensure that the choice was the correct one.

If the current thoughts of raising the leaving age to 18 go ahead you 13 year old scrote has another 5 years to go and putting him/her in a box with no way out at that age will still result in the problems we have today. Yes we need an academic stream yes we need an artisan stream, and we need a hybrid stream as well and we need to ensure that balance between academic and artisan can vary as the nasty little tykes progress through the sausage machine. In that way we will create more likelyhood of them maintainig some interest, minimise frustration and perhaps improve the output, and create enough educated chavs to go out and earn enough to pay our pensions.
 

slim

War Hero
Agree with this Peter.
Problem with getting the Chavs educated though is keeping them attending educational establishments. Too many have either low intelligence or do not give a toss and see that school is just a space between nursery and drawing their benefits.
As pensioners we are still paying tax, a large percentage of which supports the benefit system.
I admit that I have no answer to the benefit culture that is allowed to exist in its present form.
 
Parents! Thats where the problem lies. I bunked of school for the last year of education and "asked" to leave aged 15 in "66" with nil qualifications.My mother was furious. Within 6 weeks she had written to every employer in the area who ran apprenticeship schemes and within 6 months was taken on by the Gas Board for a 5 year Gas Fitting and Plumbing apprenticeship.If it hadn't been for them I would be sweeping roads now!Chav parents don't seem to give a toss about their kids. Kids aged 13 havn't a clue what they want in life,they need steering and advice from school and parents but sadly get little from either it seems?
 

pingbosun

Lantern Swinger
Maxi_77 said:
slim said:
I
If the current thoughts of raising the leaving age to 18 go ahead you 13 year old scrote has another 5 years to go and putting him/her in a box with no way out at that age will still result in the problems we have today. Yes we need an academic stream yes we need an artisan stream, and we need a hybrid stream as well and we need to ensure that balance between academic and artisan can vary as the nasty little tykes progress through the sausage machine. In that way we will create more likelyhood of them maintainig some interest, minimise frustration and perhaps improve the output, and create enough educated chavs to go out and earn enough to pay our pensions.

G'day Peter.(there I was careful mate lol.)

I fear that this may make the trouble, even more of a problem :roll: as you will have to be dealing with eighteen year old drop outs, with no ambition instead of the thirteen year olds that are the problem now.

I still think that if the country were to bring back "National Service" for all eighteen year olds and for both sexes, that this would help to alleviate the problem, I know that this isn't the perfect answer, but it would go a long way to helping these kids mature into responsible adults, who have some respect for other peoples feelings and possessions, and maybe knock some of the aggression out of them, and let them show how tough they really are.

Between the ages of Thirteen and eighteen, they would know that when they turned 18 or whenever they were deferred to, then "National Service" loomed in front of them, and that may, just stop, them from being so bolshie as they immediately get when the leave at sixteen, with no future, prospects , or ambition ahead of them all.

When the finally return to civvy street, the government of the day, then should have some scheme, in place that would give the then mature adults, training as to whether they would go into trades, vocations, study law, or simply return to being yobos, who go down the pub all their life with no ambition, but this time with respect for others, and it may cut by a big percentage the drop outs through drugs.
I'm sure that after the two years, they would definately have ideas of what they want to do for the rest of their life, whether to go back to school, or uni, but at least they would be old enough to make their own minds up, not the choice that "Mum" wanted their prodigy to follow.

This failed before in that when the Natos, did leave the services , the Government had nothing in place for them to follow up, as to what vocation they should like to try.Remembering that most of these young guys still weren't old enough to vote, when they left the Governments employment, so there was nothing in place for the new found confidence that they had found in themselves, to say try for a trade, go into computers, become a merchant banker, maybe carry on with whatever they had learned in the forces. There was nothing in place to help towards their immediate future.

The country simply used them like they always had before, used them; then cast them aside, without any though for their future, which was the future of the country: WHY: because they could get another 5,000. next week and the week after, as many young adults all for 28/. a week!! which was less than paying them the dole.

I think this is where they should be trying to solve the problem about the young, and guiding more mature people into academia, social services, trades for the over twenty, give this group the hope that is needed for the future of this country, as we were once "Great Britain".

Digressing a wee bit: do you think this trouble about the missing sailors would have happened in the thirties ?? :idea: :idea: NO WAY HOZZAY. The flag would be shown and the subject would be resolved yesterday if not sooner.

Bring back the "Great" in Britain.

pingie
 
pingbosun said:
educated chavs to go out and earn enough to pay our pensions.

G'day Peter.(there I was careful mate lol.)

I fear that this may make the trouble, even more of a problem :roll: as you will have to be dealing with eighteen year old drop outs, with no ambition instead of the thirteen year olds that are the problem now.

I still think that if the country were to bring back "National Service" for all eighteen year olds and for both sexes, that this would help to alleviate the problem, I know that this isn't the perfect answer, but it would go a long way to helping these kids mature into responsible adults, who have some respect for other peoples feelings and possessions, and maybe knock some of the aggression out of them, and let them show how tough they really are.

Between the ages of Thirteen and eighteen, they would know that when they turned 18 or whenever they were deferred to, then "National Service" loomed in front of them, and that may, just stop, them from being so bolshie as they immediately get when the leave at sixteen, with no future, prospects , or ambition ahead of them all.

When the finally return to civvy street, the government of the day, then should have some scheme, in place that would give the then mature adults, training as to whether they would go into trades, vocations, study law, or simply return to being yobos, who go down the pub all their life with no ambition, but this time with respect for others, and it may cut by a big percentage the drop outs through drugs.
I'm sure that after the two years, they would definately have ideas of what they want to do for the rest of their life, whether to go back to school, or uni, but at least they would be old enough to make their own minds up, not the choice that "Mum" wanted their prodigy to follow.

This failed before in that when the Natos, did leave the services , the Government had nothing in place for them to follow up, as to what vocation they should like to try.Remembering that most of these young guys still weren't old enough to vote, when they left the Governments employment, so there was nothing in place for the new found confidence that they had found in themselves, to say try for a trade, go into computers, become a merchant banker, maybe carry on with whatever they had learned in the forces. There was nothing in place to help towards their immediate future.

The country simply used them like they always had before, used them; then cast them aside, without any though for their future, which was the future of the country: WHY: because they could get another 5,000. next week and the week after, as many young adults all for 28/. a week!! which was less than paying them the dole.

I think this is where they should be trying to solve the problem about the young, and guiding more mature people into academia, social services, trades for the over twenty, give this group the hope that is needed for the future of this country, as we were once "Great Britain".

Digressing a wee bit: do you think this trouble about the missing sailors would have happened in the thirties ?? :idea: :idea: NO WAY HOZZAY. The flag would be shown and the subject would be resolved yesterday if not sooner.

Bring back the "Great" in Britain.

pingie[/quote]

Ping

Salutation noted :lol:

The problem at school is not so much one of age but one of value and interest. To many of todays youngsters see no value in school nor as a result have any interest, result chaos. Introduce value and you generate interest and this in itself will generate greater discipline as the majority will want to achieve. Peer pressure works and here is perhaps an opportunity to use it to advantage.

As for national service I see no value in bunging thousands of disnterested scrote into the services where they will dilute and polute what is an excellent proffesional organisation. On the otherhand if this resource was channelled into activities such as national park restoration, heritage restoration and disaster relief and aid then perhaps it would have the desired effect.
 
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