Cash Strapped Navy Cuts Destroyer Force

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Nutty, Oct 4, 2008.

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  1. From todays Telegraph, still we cannot blame it on your new Law Lecturer what is the future for two CV's that cannot be defended?

    DD's Mothballed

  2. DT


    They are not needed, just look at this item from today in the same paper.
  3. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    Or, not capable....or too expensive to difficult to fully man....

    We're moving, albeit slowly, towards a smaller fleet but one that has significantly better capabilities.

    We can't do everything, especially in the manner we would wish, there simply isn't enough cash to do that. So we have chosen the best course through a raft of compromises.
  4. Where the hell has the delete option gone?
  5. Is that a NILE or a RNL Mk1?

    Do you listen to politicians just before sleepy time and suffered subliminal implantation? The bloody budget simply isn't big enough for a country of our wealth (even if it is based on a hollow house of cards); ENDEX!

    Arguably, we need more DDs in the North Sea and Faroes Gap to cover holes the Air Foce have allowed in UKADGE.
  6. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Am I the only one who remembers the Telegraph reporting this last year followed by an immediate MoD denial? If this was an acceptable strategic decision why would they deny it then? I think the headline say's it all, the RN is bankrupt not just cash strapped.

    I see the Russian's are to embark on a set of world wide exercises next week, the biggest demonstration of power since the Cold War including the launch of cruise missiles from sea and airborn platforms, and we can't even afford to get a decent seat to watch!
  7. This has been in open source press for months and anyone who has been anywhere near FLJ3 & 4 in the last couple of months will have known anyway. At one point during summer leave period, all bar D92 were alongside in Pompey.

    Something else that is popping up wrt FSC is that the C1/C2 ships will total 18. Add 6 T45 to that and you get 24 DD/FF, a nice little cut of 1 and completely unannounced. Unless of course the last of the T23s does an "F57 Andromeda" to make up the numbers......
  8. Wave dodger states we are moving towards a more capable fleet, 6 (if you are lucky) Darings, well it is arguably as to if they are fit for purpose, 48 AA shots then no more or less just another target with no A/S or Surface capability. What or where are these 18 C1/C2 you so glibly mention. If we cannot not keep ships at sea how are we going to develop and build, pay for, equip, maintain and crew another 18.

  9. Nutty

    Anyone who has ever been involved with FSC is far from glib about it - but that is the programme as stands. As for 6 T45, bow six is sitting on the barge in pompey now and has been for a few weeks now - Scotstoun isn't ready for it yet.
  10. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    Ha. If only you fellers knew the truth of the 'extended readiness' 42s.

  11. Is that the same extended readiness period the Invincible is in :w00t:
    aka never to set sail again. Unless it is off to the chilean navy :thumright: :money: :money:

    anyway who needs destroyers/frigates it is not as if there are lots of pirates pinching ships out there :thumright:
  12. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    Aye. Close by.

  13. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    Far from it I don't do politics....I'm simply realistic, we can't man what we want! Getting a smaller, higher capability fleet makes more sense, IF, we can afford it, IF it delivers on time. We are so strapped I know what we are heading for hence I think this is the best we could hope for......

    Nutty, a T45 has 45 AA shots so what - how many has a T42? Go on Levers tell him about the availability of our principle AA munition! As Levers should also be able to point out our T42 are simply knackered. FLJ/NC is probably the best place for them.

    We need to be realistic, a smaller, well manned fleet with modern assets and realistic tasking is what we need. We're no longer the worlds policeman we're a PCSO...

    Hey Bisley, that gives me an idea - Merchant Force Protection! Sounds like a job for the RNR :thumright:
  14. Not me WD I have never advocated hanging on to the type 42's. BUT I am not a fan of the type 45 which appears to be a white elephant being fit only for the air defence of CV's and Task Force or an Amphibious Task force.

    With even the worlds crap navies sailing around with Russian Kilo Class SS boats, one of which the Polish Orzel took the pride of our best equipped SSN's HMS Trafalgar apart in the 2003 war games with a final result:

    Orzel 4 Trafalgar 0

    Now what or who is going to look after the CV's etc from these beasties or their younger brothers not a T45 nor a surface risk with its one 4.5" gun. While our four operational T45's are looking after a task force who protects our maritime trade, what convoy escorts do we have or even a capability to build such things or is a war to only last 14 days. If we are being more realistic in Fleet and MOD why are we not "a smaller, well manned fleet with modern assets and realistic tasking is what we need. We're no longer the worlds policeman we're a PCSO."

    1. Not well manned
    2. No modern (useful, OK 4 Astutes may be) assets.
    3. Unrealistic tasking
    4. We may be able to Police the Irish Sea if the Paddies do not kick off
    5. Even a PCSO is more use than that.

    My tongue is further in my cheek than yours is in yours.

  15. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    If you're saying a T boat had snags with a Kilo, do you think a T22/T23 will help?

    Now this is a whole different debate, what convoys? I don't think we have doctrine that suggests we'd ever form up WWII style convoys and stooge about in that manner.

    We biuld kit and deploy assets based on the threat we perceive in a 10-25 year timeframe. ASW is getting more focus but it has been markedly overlooked in recent years but thats being slowly addressed. Convoy protection.....we'd need a merchant fleet to start with!
  16. Merchant force protection uhmmmmmmmmm there's an idea. ^_^;

    We could set up a branch in the RNR for that and call them something like Above Water Force protection or even Warefare Seaman reserves. :thumright:

    must get on the old dog and bone to SO2 for that branch and express my idea. Could be a GEM award coming my way :money:
  17. So the Royal Navy is/has returned to the days of Convoy PQ17 and will abrogate any responsibility to protect merchant ships supplying the UK with fuel, goods and food. Just how long does the RN think it can remain operational without UK PLC being resupplied?

    Are you really saying that the modern RN has no plan/idea/responsibility to protect out trade in the event of an attack on merchant ships upon whom 50,000,000 people in the UK depend.

  18. Are you really saying that the modern RN has no plan/idea/responsibility to protect out trade in the event of an attack on merchant ships upon whom 50,000,000 people in the UK depend.


    In one word YES :thumright:

    I think the RN would love to, but treasury pen pushers will tell you to ram it. 25 billion Bradford & Bingley no probs, Northern Rock 50 billion bargain. RN new ships are you jesting young man. Go away and scrap some more of tyour assets. :money: :money:
  19. The modern Royal Navy doesn't get a say-so. A bunch of civil servants in MoD known as the Studies Assumptions Group (or SAG) decide what the RN are supposed to deliver, based on a raft of scenarios that say who we are supposed to be treating as the bad guys over the next few years. All this feeds into the defence capabilities plans, which in turn drive force structure, manning and kit.

    While there is some provision for escorting ships, it ain't Battle of the Atlantic or anything like.
  20. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    Yes and no. What I am saying is that given the pennies we have and the look ahead at what may realistically happen we are building/planning to those goals. We all know we can only do so much with what we have. We'd all love to do more but its just not feasible.

    As for piracy, interesting days ahead..... :rambo:

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