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Carrier deals signed!!!

Chalky

Lantern Swinger
What-ho, all.

It seems that we're going to get the carriers after all.

Deal signed today

Shame we'll have no escort fleet to send with them or aircraft to put on them...
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
"This will make them more than three times the size of the existing Invincible-class carriers.

Each vessel will be crewed by 1,450 sailors and airmen"


Should be interesting to see whether those figures remains constant.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
I think that NS and SM are going to have to get their act together and start recruiting heavily. First suggestion scrap the idea of recruits having two of everything, one of everything will do in the future.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
janner said:
I think that NS and SM are going to have to get their act together and start recruiting heavily. First suggestion scrap the idea of recruits having two of everything, one of everything will do in the future.

Ah yes, but what kind of underpants would they need? Kevlar perhaps.
 

P2000

Lantern Swinger
Good news- everbody return to base for debriefing and cocktails!

However...

<rant>

Shame about the BBC's coverage: why isn't this money being spent on <insert army equipment here> which can be used in <insert sandy/rocky place here>?

I know that it's the question the public wants asked- I just wish the RN PR machine would stop trumpetting the odd drugs bust in the Caribbean (great, but where's the PR value in showing a ship somewhere tropical and sunny when the troops are fighting and dying in Afghanistan) and start making the case for a Royal Navy with global reach.

</rant>
 

scouse

War Hero
Ninja_Stoker said:
"This will make them more than three times the size of the existing Invincible-class carriers.

Each vessel will be crewed by 1,450 sailors and airmen"
just like in the 60/70 s :thumright:
 
P2000 said:
Good news- everbody return to base for debriefing and cocktails!

However...

<rant>

Shame about the BBC's coverage: why isn't this money being spent on <insert army equipment here> which can be used in <insert sandy/rocky place here>?

I know that it's the question the public wants asked- I just wish the RN PR machine would stop trumpetting the odd drugs bust in the Caribbean (great, but where's the PR value in showing a ship somewhere tropical and sunny when the troops are fighting and dying in Afghanistan) and start making the case for a Royal Navy with global reach.

</rant>

Too true. The carriers are an investment in our national security for the next 50 years. What a shame that most people can't see beyond the end of their noses. There are already ominous signs of more aggressive competition for shrinking global resources and our children and grandchildren wouldn't thank us for neglecting their future strategic national interests.
 
Good News; the CVs look probable

Bad News; the 15 DD/FF Fleet looks probable

P2000. Thanks for that superb link. Very germane to the entire subject of CVs, force projection and force balance. Of the "5 Fallacies", Nos 3 and 5 should be compulsory reading.

3) The fallacy that the driving tempo of this Ministry should be set by the general
budget round. Defence is not an equal partner with other Departments, most of which are
products of the proliferation of newer mandates, few older than the early twentieth century.
The two prime expressions of a democratic State’s contract with its citizens are the nightwatchman
functions: to defend the citizen against the enemy without and the enemy within:
to protect the citizen’s freedom to live quietly and privately within the law. That contract
underpins the moral case for taxation of the citizen by the State. The needs of the nightwatchmen
trump all other calls upon taxation revenue, a judgement supported by the way
that the term ‘security’ is often attached to other forms of government activity as a way of
subliminally making their claim for priority.

4) The fallacy that ‘jointness’ above the tactical level is a form of more advanced
strategic thought or posture than insights or postures composed from well-integrated
but different services. Whitehall ‘jointness’ has become a homogenizing, levelling-down
agent in the hands of process-obsessed bureaucracies. The Mountbatten model of the MoD is
now broken and has run its course. Mostly, the ranks of the Ministry’s civil servants now
march to a different drum than one beaten by the Services. ‘Jointness’ has become a tool for
denigrating the professional skills of the military expert by blurring lines of authority
between uniformed and civilian inhabitants of the Main Building. It has bred resentment and
is visible in a breakdown of trust. ‘Jointness’ has become a tool for cost-cutting more than an
enabler of military effectiveness. A fresh conceptualization – and operationalization – of
‘jointness’ is now required that will return to a more evidence-based understanding of warfare.
 
In reality we are still in a wait and see mode, all that is guaranteed at present is the revenue stream for some months for the ship builders and equipment suppliers. All orders like this can be cancelled Hope big grey war canoes ltd and Babcock have good cancelation clauses in the contract.
 

NotmeChief

Banned
The work allocations were announced this morning - Rosyth, Barrow, Govan, Portsmouth.

Not a mention for Guzz which is more proof (if any were needed) that it is closing.

They announced a few days ago that boats to jockland and frigates to pompy, all that left is a couple of RM ships so it will become a royal marine barracks.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Guzz isn't building any of it because they don't have the right facilities (big steel sheds & panel lines with easy access to dry docks). They won't be based there because they can't get through Smeaton pass or round the corner up river.

I could have sworn that the announcement on future fleet support also specifically stated that Devonport will provide a specialist deep maintenance (ie non-fleet time) facility, while Pompey looks after FT Eng.

The boats may be based in Fas, but non-fleet upkeep will still be in Guzz AIUI.
 
NotmeChief said:
The work allocations were announced this morning - Rosyth, Barrow, Govan, Portsmouth.

Not a mention for Guzz which is more proof (if any were needed) that it is closing.

They announced a few days ago that boats to jockland and frigates to pompy, all that left is a couple of RM ships so it will become a royal marine barracks.

Little to do with the future of Guzz really. Barrow, Govan, and Portsmouth are where Big Grey War Canoes PLC has it's shipbuilding yards, and Rosyth because they won the commercial deal with Big Grey War Canoes PLC to do the bits they couldn't
 
Been reading peoples comments on the BBC website on the topic "Should we be spending money on carriers?"

Some of the comments are just incredible, seems to be a lot of people who think that £4b for aircraft carriers to help defend an Island nation is a waste of money, who do these people think is going to defend Britain?

A lot of people saying that £4bn for carriers seems a bargain compared to the projected cost of £25bn for the Trident Replacement, makes you wonder if that £25bn would be better off spend on an extra carrier, escorts, surface ships and a far larger SSN forces with Tactical Nuclear weapons rather than a new Trident system.
 

finknottle

Banned
I personally see it as a complete waste of money, Britannia does not rule the waves and never will again. The money would have been better spent on ensuring our front line combat soldiers get the finest equipment that money can buy in sufficient quantities.
 

VarSity

Midshipman
finknottle said:
I personally see it as a complete waste of money, Britannia does not rule the waves and never will again. The money would have been better spent on ensuring our front line combat soldiers get the finest equipment that money can buy in sufficient quantities.

And the next time these fine troops need to go to another hot sandy place, or a very southern cold rocky one, how will we provide them with air support?
 
VarSity said:
finknottle said:
I personally see it as a complete waste of money, Britannia does not rule the waves and never will again. The money would have been better spent on ensuring our front line combat soldiers get the finest equipment that money can buy in sufficient quantities.

And the next time these fine troops need to go to another hot sandy place, or a very southern cold rocky one, how will we provide them with air support?

Don't worry Finky will help the Crabs to shift Gan again.
 

finknottle

Banned
VarSity said:
finknottle said:
I personally see it as a complete waste of money, Britannia does not rule the waves and never will again. The money would have been better spent on ensuring our front line combat soldiers get the finest equipment that money can buy in sufficient quantities.

And the next time these fine troops need to go to another hot sandy place, or a very southern cold rocky one, how will we provide them with air support?

The same way as we do now.
 
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