Career in civilian MOD?

cutter

Badgeman
I've been ruled out of a career in the Navy absolutely and forever by my eyesight and I'm currently considering a career in the civilian MOD.

I currently have what most people would consider a 'good' job which pays well and has a future, but it's basically bean counting and bores me to tears. I would ideally like to pursue a career as an analyst or defence procurement.

Has anybody here worked for the MOD or other dept's in the civil service? If so I'd appreciate your input.

Cheers
 
cutter said:
I've been ruled out of a career in the Navy absolutely and forever by my eyesight and I'm currently considering a career in the civilian MOD.

I currently have what most people would consider a 'good' job which pays well and has a future, but it's basically bean counting and bores me to tears. I would ideally like to pursue a career as an analyst or defence procurement.

Has anybody here worked for the MOD or other dept's in the civil service? If so I'd appreciate your input.

Cheers
I wish you well on this, but the CS is drastically cutting recruitment and staff to keep within their budget restraints foisted upon them by Mr Brown, although they still seem to be gaily recruiting hordes of consultants, and agency staff, and throwing loads of taxpayers money at them to do the self same jobs that they have created by making the previous occupants redundandant.
 

cutter

Badgeman
Cheers Whitemouse, this is good info to know. I'm currently a trainee quantity surveyor so maybe a better way into defence procurement might be to wait until I'm fully qualified in this and try and move into the defence industry as a consultant somehow.

I'm still interested to hear everyone's opinion on this though.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
If you enjoy stultifying process with career advancement only via either A) Dead mens shoes or B) Embracing ever more irrelevant nonsense dressed up as science or best practice, then MoD's the place for you.

Don't get me wrong - some of the people you will work with, mil and civvy are top quality and in many ways the tempo of some jobs can keep you wired for weeks at a time. Ultimately however, you'll find yourself increasingly disgruntled with the inability to get anything meaningful accomplished. It's also fair to say that MoD is increasingly losing its technical depth and has in many ways lost critical mass in a number of areas.

By the way - I don't work for MoD, but have been a civil servant in the Research Agencies and had a proper job before that. Am back outside again now and spend an awful lot of time dealing with MoD. If you want to make a difference and you can't join the mob, then pick a good defence contractor (preferably one that's not Big And Expensive) and good luck.
 

cutter

Badgeman
Not_a_boffin said:
in many ways the tempo of some jobs can keep you wired for weeks at a time...If you want to make a difference and you can't join the mob, then pick a good defence contractor
Thanks Not_a_boffin for such good advice. A job that is invloving and meaningful is exactly what I'm after but I do realise the civil service can be frustrating, my old man worked for them, ableit in Customs & Excise.

The irony is I could have easily walked into a defence contractor straight from school/A-levels as I'm from a BAE Systems shipyard town. However, all I wanted to do at that age was get away.
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
Cutter - I recommend the quantity surveyor route as you will at least have transferable skills to fall back on.

Whitemouse - standard practice. Reduce staff, but not workload. Increase contractorisation and consultants to backfill gaps in knowledge and skills because many of the experienced people walk when there is a redundancy package. When the costs associated with contractors and consultants grow too high, cut some more staff, increase the workload, increase the costs, reduce morale of actual staff, bring in consultants, etc, etc.

Who would be a civil servant?

SF
 
Not_a_boffin said:
If you enjoy stultifying process with career advancement only via either A) Dead mens shoes or B) Embracing ever more irrelevant nonsense dressed up as science or best practice, then MoD's the place for you.

Don't get me wrong - some of the people you will work with, mil and civvy are top quality and in many ways the tempo of some jobs can keep you wired for weeks at a time. Ultimately however, you'll find yourself increasingly disgruntled with the inability to get anything meaningful accomplished. It's also fair to say that MoD is increasingly losing its technical depth and has in many ways lost critical mass in a number of areas.

By the way - I don't work for MoD, but have been a civil servant in the Research Agencies and had a proper job before that. Am back outside again now and spend an awful lot of time dealing with MoD. If you want to make a difference and you can't joing the mob, then pick a good defence contractor (preferably one that's not Big And Expensive and good luck.
Having worked for MOD contractors for over 25 years I agree with much of what you say, mind you these days I think promotion in the MOB is almost as bad as the MOD. Equally having been bought and sold by Messy Beast they are not all bad, it depends where you are and which part you work for just like parts of the MOD.

I would suggest the first thing to do is to decide what sort of work you want then look carefully at the opportunites both in government service and industry.

Good luck

Peter
 

cutter

Badgeman
SILVER_FOX said:
Cutter - I recommend the quantity surveyor route as you will at least have transferable skills to fall back on.
SF
Cheers for you advice SF. I suppose I should stay with Quantity Surveying. My employer is paying for my masters degree part-time which will include elements of project management which will be transferable, plus it's a specific 'trade' which I can fall back to make money if needed.

It's just boring as p*ss.....:p
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Cutter

If it's THAT shipyard town - I can't say I blame you. One road in, one road out. Grew up across the water from it and was never remotely tempted to go there!
 
Hi Silver Fox,

Too true I'm afraid. My better half is in the CS, and is very dsillusioned, and can't wait to retire in 18 months. I work in the same building, and because I've been here a few years, a lot of the staff are now friends, and the anger and disappointment is totally lost on the Treasury, even the Unions seem not to be too bothered from the info I get.
The cuts are all in the admin/support staff, so it makes you wonder who is actually going to do the work, but they are still recruiting the higher grades - it makes you wonder who is actually doing the budgeting and how they come to such a decision :?

Ah! the intricacies of Government thinking.....?!?
 

cutter

Badgeman
Not_a_boffin said:
Cutter

If it's THAT shipyard town - I can't say I blame you. One road in, one road out. Grew up across the water from it and was never remotely tempted to go there!
Yep, that'll be the one! The 'Wart On The Arse Of The Lake District' I believe we are affectionately known as :lol:

But it's the good life up there really. Six years in London has taught me that much.
 

slim

War Hero
cutter said:
Not_a_boffin said:
Cutter

If it's THAT shipyard town - I can't say I blame you. One road in, one road out. Grew up across the water from it and was never remotely tempted to go there!
Yep, that'll be the one! The 'Wart On The Arse Of The Lake District' I believe we are affectionately known as :lol:

But it's the good life up there really. Six years in London has taught me that much.
Whats wrong with the place. Had a few days there when Manchester was being built and thoroughly enjoyed it. Most of the Manchester crew had to be removed from the town with tyre levers they didn't want to leave.
Returned as a civie putting SINS on Torbay and worked there for three months. Happy memories of he place.
 
cutter said:
I've been ruled out of a career in the Navy absolutely and forever by my eyesight and I'm currently considering a career in the civilian MOD.

I currently have what most people would consider a 'good' job which pays well and has a future, but it's basically bean counting and bores me to tears. I would ideally like to pursue a career as an analyst or defence procurement.

Has anybody here worked for the MOD or other dept's in the civil service? If so I'd appreciate your input.

Cheers
If you really want to enter the civil service make sure you enter via the Fast Stream and not in any lowly position. As for the MOD, my personal advice is to avoid them unless you are not particularly keen on taking responsibility. Their Executive Officer grades do work that is standard in Clerical Officer grades elsewhere in the civil service! My understanding is that this is for secirity reasons - but I'm somewhat sceptical about this. The best department to join is the FCO - if you can get in, or the Treasury. Your qualifications suggest however the Department of the Environment of something similar.

Whitemouse is quite right about the cuts in the CS being amongst the lower grades - support staff are getting culled under the presumption that computers can replace them. All very familiar to seasoned civil service watchers! In a few years time they will have to be replaced, probably with external contractors costing considerably more, but appearing to cost less on paper. But hey, what the heck, it's only the poor bloody taxpayer that will end up paying for policy stunts like this and the PFI.
 
Maybe I'm doing summat wrong but the pay is better than stacking shelves, I get to boss an RN lieutenant about, travel all over the world in BA Club, shortish hours and loadsa holidays. Most of all, I am still part of something and I can see positive results of my work in supporting HM Forces.

I may be shiny-arsed civvy but I like my job and will sorry to finally end a fifty year career in aviation.
 

ukdaytona

War Hero
From the folks I work with (who used to be MoD CS) they are now working for Private Company doing the same work in the same office but dont seem as happy. The unions dont seem to be too interested and some of them are still trying to get the finer details of their TUPE Contracts resolved (after more than 12 months)

Unless your higher up the food chain, whilst yes you may well have a 'job for life' it is exactly that, a job rather than a career......
 

lsadirty

War Hero
I worked for the MoD in London from 1989-2003, and was lucky enough to get a job in the Records Department, where I was cataloguing all sorts of files, ranging from policy documents to technical reports to UFO files to ships/submarine logs from WW 2 up to my own time in the Pusser (found ny own (shaky) at times handwriting in the submarine logs), for shipment to the Public Record Office/National Archive. Maybe I didn't earn a lot (about 19 grand year before I left), but I enjoyed the job and it sure beat the dole of the Thatcher years. Separation was a bitch, but I always seemed to get good digs, so her indoors could always visit. When they offered early retirement, I took the best deal I could get, and walked with a pension at 60. Never worked with the military, and never wanted to - couldn't stand officers when I was in the mob, and saw nothing to change my mind while I was there. I think I was rather lucky, getting into a branch where I could indulge my personal hobby of Naval history, whereas it's all finance orientated now, where most newbies seem to end up.
 

NotmeChief

Banned
defence procurement
That has to be the biggest joke on the whole of RR. They don't procure anything, it's just robbed off one to keep another going. If you get into that just make sure you bring a really heavy newspaper and the coffee boat is well stocked, you will have pleanty of time for both.
 
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