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Can we be paid for travelling time?

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
Am about to go on a weeks training involving a long commute on the Sunday to get to the location. I've been told by my unit that CMR doesn't pay us for travel time - is this correct?

I'm giving up 1/4 of my weekend to travel on behalf of the RNR and they won't pay me for my time? This seems wrong to me. If they won't pay us, is it better to make us travel on the Monday morning and work into the Dogs to reflect this?
 

Tall_bloke

Lantern Swinger
I've come across this issue before, and I think it depends on which unit you're from and where you're travelling. At one unit the bloke in the UPO was a total c**k and scrapped our extra half a days pay for travelling down to Pompey on a friday night. At the unit I'm with now though they pay it no problem.
I think if anything there should be some consistency from all the units, but at the moment there just isn't.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Logic, whilst not always applicable, would suggest that as a Reservist you should be paid duty travel to travel from residence to place of work. If the travel is classed as duty travel, then you should be paid either a quarter or half day's pay for being on duty for the duration of your journey.

You could always confirm this as a query on the JPA "iSupport" facility.
 

Sgt_Rock

Newbie
The bottom line is yes you can - however the rules in JSP 754 are not very clear and open to interpretation; you need to prove that the time that you leave home or work is essential rather than just convenient!
 

ASDIC

Midshipman
Units (or individuals within units) may see things differently, however the bottom line is that when going to/from unit for drill nights, you are on duty from the moment you leave work until you return home (providing your travel is by a direct route). You are ENTILTLED to pay for the time spent at the unit (usually 2 hrs) and home to duty pay for your travelling (22p a mile I think).

This is different for Weekend Training/courses etc. Here you are again on duty from start of travel to returning home, however you are ENTITLED to be paid for reasonable travelling time. So if your course starts is Plymouth at 0800 on a Monday, and you live in Cardiff, it is reasonable to claim 3 to 4 hours travelling time each way. If your unit has an issue with this, simply raise the matter with your Divisonal Officer (informally), if no joy, submit a representation and then the matter will be addressed (by the CO or above, if required) and a simple-minded git in your unit will have to wind his/her neck in.

good luck and let me know how it goes

ASDIC
 

McHammock

Lantern Swinger
Agree fully with ASDIC.
There should be consistency among all units.
If you're going on weekend training , you are covered for e.g. insurance from when you leave home until you return home - duty trip. If you have to leave Friday night to be there for Saturday m0800 you should get paid for this.

No-one should be afraid to submit a representation.
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
Thanks - I've been told that 1/2 day will be authorised in this event. I think its quite an issue though - how does it stand on insurance grounds if we have an accident or incident while travelling if subject o NDA but not being paid?

I routinely travel down to weekend training - the trip takes about 2 hours - I'd expect 1/4 day pay for it.

My new view is simple. If the unit will not provide me with pay for travel then I will travel down on the day of the training and arrive late. If everyone did that then we'd soon see a coherent policy!
 

see_no_ships

Midshipman
JSP754 – Tri-Service Regs for Pay

Attendance-Based Pay

04.0206. All other categories of Reserve personnel (i.e. those not on FTRS and NRPS(TA)) are paid on an attendance basis and therefore basic pay for this cadre is expressed as a daily rate, calculated using the annual rate divided by 365, or 366, depending on whether or not the financial year in question overlaps a leap year. In all circumstances a day is counted from midnight and pay is issued for a period of continuous attendance within that period. Entitlement to pay should be calculated as follows:

a. For a period of continuous attendance of at least 8 hours up to 24 hours inclusive, whether wholly in one day or partly in one day and partly in another, one day’s pay is to be issued. Only one day’s pay may be paid within a period of 24 hours so that, for example, continuous attendance from 1700 hours on a Friday to 1700 hours on the Saturday entitles the individual to one day’s pay.

b. For periods of continuous attendance of more than 24 hours, one day’s pay is to be issued for each consecutive day (midnight to midnight) during which the Reservist is required to attend for 8 hours or more.

c. When a quarter, a half or three-quarter of a day’s pay is issued for a day preceding or succeeding a full day’s duty, training, weekend or camp, care is to be taken to ensure that the conditions of 04.0206b above are observed, so that, for example, continuous attendance from 1700 hours on a Friday to 1700 hours on the Sunday entitles the individual to 2¾ days’ pay, even though the period is only/under 48 hours.
 

ASDIC

Midshipman
excellenc clarification - black and white, and shows entitlement.

However, be a bit careful about saying that you would arrive late if they won't pay you travelling time. This could consitute an offence under the NDA, it would be better for you to inform your unit that you are entitled to payment for traveling, and if they do not agree, decline the training opportunity, do not arrive late!

Also as for insurance, if you are using your own car, you should ensure you have included a special clause on your policy, I can't remember what it's called - someone else will - but it should not cost you any extra, and it ensures that you are insured whilst travelling during the "firms time"

good luck
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
The clause on your certificate of insurance needs to change from Social, Domestic & Pleasure, to: Social, Business, Domestic & Pleasure. This means you are insured to travel to & from a place of work- many people are unknowingly uninsured if they drive to a different place of work.
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
Noted ASDIC - I'll tell the branch coord that I'm arriving late and the reasons why this is the case. Hopefully that should sort things out.

Presumably attendance based pay counts until an individual returns home? Therefore we should be claiming 2 3/4 days pay as I never get home till after 1700hrs from a weekend?
 

Sgt_Rock

Newbie
Like I commented earlier - the JSP is open to interpretation - attendance is NOT the same as travelling time. Therefore you are unlikely to be able to claim 2.75 days pay for a weekend. BR60A cites a good example and I believe that it is compliant with the JSP:

"Reservist A finishes work at 1700 on a Friday and travels to Portsmouth for Weekend Training, arriving at his/her desination at 2300. Training completes at 1230 on the Sunday and "A" returns home at 1830.

Total Elapsed Time = 49.5 hrs = 2 days ORT/SA."

If A arrived home half an hour later, then he/she would have accrued 50 hours and would therefore be entitled to claim for 2.25 days.

I know that this doesn't apply in your scenario PT, but hopefully it clarifies the weekend situation...
 

Karma

War Hero
Purple_twiglet said:
Noted ASDIC - I'll tell the branch coord that I'm arriving late and the reasons why this is the case. Hopefully that should sort things out.

Presumably attendance based pay counts until an individual returns home? Therefore we should be claiming 2 3/4 days pay as I never get home till after 1700hrs from a weekend?

there is also potentilly a HSAW issue, or Working Time Directive. There is something in there about aggregated working time including travel to and from the place of work. It might be worth a look at the detail of the legislation, although you may find that you shouldn't drive after a full working day, rather than first thing on a Sat morning.

The RNR as an employer should be requiring you to breach the WTD since the driving side affects both the duty of care with respect to you, but would also potentially end up with some liability for others should you have an accident.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Without being intentionally provocative but it seems to me that nearly all the RNR threads (above most others) seem to be drips/complaints about pay/allowances, etc...

Now to the casual observer this might look like that RNR personnel are either getting seen off, or are unable to sort out their personal admin internally, rather preferring to spout off about how hard done by they are on a public unofficial website, or spend all their time moaning about what is bad about the RNR rather than promoting the positive things?

I mean, it seems that the large majority of the RN/RM/RMR/etc. hardly have any problems with JPA, and if they do they resolve it by contacting their own UPO.

Or am I being cynical? :oops:
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
Being cynical.

I work in the MOD in a purple community. The major constant drip is JPA, JPA, JPA. The difference is that they have local support to chase up and get help and mutual support.
RNR and other reservists do not have this support network, what admin staff existed have, in the main, been scrapped. Admin and JPA issues are done through smoke and mirrors. It is very difficult to get a clear answer when the staff themselves do not know what to do. This site is a useful source of 'best practise' as people can compare how others do it to get an answer.

The question is a significant one - RN are paid 365 and have safeguards in place. I am being expected to give up half of my weekend to travel a flipping long way, subject to the NDA (in other words I can claim subsistence etc), but I am expected to do this for free. If I told a matelot to report to a new uinit, during his weekend, but that he wouldnt be paid for his time, then the board would be full of ranters. This is no different - its about getting the pay that we are entitled to for helping the RN.
 

scouse

War Hero
kinell what happened to the days when RNR were ex MATELOTS/ WRENS who gave their time/ expertises for free ? :rambo:
 

scouse

War Hero
Purple_twiglet said:
Been gone for 100 years scouse - probably as long as you've been out the Mob ;-)
try changing your groundbait Purple ? the Mersey goldfish are not biting :thumright:
 
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