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Cadet Force Adult Volunteer Commission.

Taken from the ACF: https://armycadets.com/news-and-eve...es-new-commission-for-cadet-force-volunteers/

CADET FORCES COMMISSION - LINES TO TAKE (LTT)
• In July 2016, Her Majesty The Queen approved the principle of establishing a new Cadet Forces Commission
• It will be a new Commission designed specifically to acknowledge the role that Cadet Force Adult Volunteer (CFAV) officers perform as national youth leaders, while continuing to recognise the traditional values, standards and strong links with the Armed Forces
• It will, for the first time, allow a level of consistency and recognition across ALL CFAV officers
• Under the new commission, Cadet Forces Commissioned Officers will continue to benefit from many of the privileges currently enjoyed eg access to officers messes etc
• The aim is that from 1 Apr 17 all new officers will be appointed to a Cadet Forces Commission; there will be transition arrangements for current CFAV officers
• Transition will include new Terms and Conditions of Volunteering (T&COV). These will be outside of the Armed Forces Act and Defence Reform Act
• Single Service Cadet Force Regulations will contain all relevant details on the Cadet Forces Commission and T&COV which are currently spread across a significant number of JSP and sSvc publications. This change will reduce the administrative burden
• CFAV officers will be involved in developing the detail of the Commission
• The Cadet Forces Commission is one strand within the overarching Cadet Forces 2020 Strategy. This strategy aims to deliver a progressive and coherent cadet experience that develops and inspires our youth
• Further work relating to recognition of non-Commissioned Cadet Force Adult Volunteers will be undertaken as part of CF2020.
Background
Several cadet-related studies and reviews over a number of years have resulted in many recommendations that have been brought together in the overarching Cadet Force 2020 Strategy. There has been much discussion about the Commission that Cadet Force Adult Volunteer officers hold and whether this should remain a Reserve Forces Commission.
Reserve Forces now operate much more closely with their Regular counterparts in terms of operations and mobilisation and their Terms and Conditions of Service have been changed to reflect this.
It is therefore now appropriate to review and amend the Terms and Conditions for CFAVs to ensure they reflect more accurately the role they perform as national volunteer youth leaders.
As the cadet forces are modernised through the Cadet Force 2020 strategy, and Regulars and Reserves become more closely integrated, it is no longer appropriate for Cadet Force officers to be subject to Service Law and military administrative action as Regular and Reserve service personnel.
Importantly, the new Commission will not dilute the close links Cadet Force Adult Volunteers officers have with their parent Service.
The Sovereign will continue to appoint personnel to the new Commission.

I heard about this the other day from someone in passing. Apparently all the cadet force officers (including the SCC officers) are to receive a new type of commission. Reading on from this the Air Cadet officers are getting rid of the VRT badge they wear on their rank slides and are replacing it with RAFAC and maybe including "Raf Air Cadets" mud guard badges on their shoulders when in their version of ones. Thinking of this, do you think the SCC might finally take advantage of the situation and maybe straighten out the officers curls?


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Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
I note that when in plain clothes, there is no entitlement to blue stripey shirts and beige chinos .
 

slim

War Hero
FFS do not alter the wavy navy curls.
The majority of so called occifers wearing these would not even have made Killick in the real navy. As it is many of those wearing them are under the impression that they are real occifers holding the queens commission and expect to be treated as so. Giving them a Real occifers uniform would just make them even more arrogant than they already are!:eek:
 

Branch-Hopper

War Hero
[QUOTE="northern-matelot, post: 1372182, member: 14034" Thinking of this, do you think the SCC might finally take advantage of the situation and maybe straighten out the officers curls? [/QUOTE]

I hope not. They are now the only people who display the old RNVR stripes. Would be a shame for it to disappear.
 
FFS do not alter the wavy navy curls.
The majority of so called occifers wearing these would not even have made Killick in the real navy.

I agree with you there, the CO of my current unit just has no leadership qualities what's so ever, how he ever made Chief Drill in my area, let alone Lt (SCC) is beyond me.

I wasn't thinking about making SCC officers indistinguishable from real ones though (I remember years ago, a rumour of giving them straight rings with a letter in the curl like reservists used to have) and bigging it up, just thinking that, that gold ribbon is bloody expensive when getting rated up, let alone compared to the wavy navy's rings ( I have one officer in my unit who's 1's and 2's top rings dates back longer than my still ongoing RN career and he's just got his second rings which as they're brand new (as he couldn't afford to have the jackets fully redone) looks a mess.

Still any idea what these commissions will mean then?


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BARNEYRNSM

War Hero
I made chief in the RN, does that beat a killick? I am immensely proud of the RNVR stripes we get to wear, please don't take that away!!!
 

BARNEYRNSM

War Hero
The new commission means that the army and RAF cadet officers will no longer have right of redress all the way up to CODS. Not sure if it means we, as wavy navy can now be court martialled?
 
A few years back I remember my old boss who was then an Air Cadet Flt Lt (no RAF service, Uni grad) saying he'd spent all weekend getting his kit together in case he got called up for Afghanistan as his Area Commander had briefed them all that, "it was getting pretty hard out in the Stan and the regulars may need a bit of help!!!".

I never mentioned it again...................well for at least 10 minutes :D
 
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slim

War Hero
The new commission means that the army and RAF cadet officers will no longer have right of redress all the way up to CODS. Not sure if it means we, as wavy navy can now be court martialled?
Being as your commission is NOT a Queens commission you are not a member of HM forces.
As a courtesy you are allowed to use the facilities of the relevant mess when attending for courses etc.
FFS what no mess would wish for is a member of the sea cadets applying for associate membership.
 

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
The new commission means that the army and RAF cadet officers will no longer have right of redress all the way up to CODS. Not sure if it means we, as wavy navy can now be court martialled?

It should go the other way.

ACF Officers are subject to military law, whereas the non-commissioned ranks are not. However, when was the last time this was actually applied in a CM? This does not and will not apply to the SCC. This sort of anachronism is one that allows the mis-conception that the Cadet forces are an integrated part of their parent service and bolsters the walt and the hard-of-thinking to portray themselves as something they are not. We have enough serving and ex-serving personnel who are happy to explain the difference. At the end of the day, our purpose is to train youngsters using a set syllabus to become better citizens, using a military theme endorsed by the State. We do not deploy and by definition we very definitely are not soldiers, sailors or airmen.

However, a rumble has been on-going regarding the ACF dropping the various cap badges and coming under one unified badge / beret - gone will be the Scottish cadets having the TOS and displaying the RRS badge. A proud history which is associated with the proud history of their parent service will be severed. Of course, this does not apply to the SCC or ATC who have had a unified uniform / badge since inception, but it does call into question what is the point and the USP of the Army cadets that distinguishes from the others, or even the Scouts.

Royal Rgt of Scotland badge BETTER.jpg

Of course there are some who seem incapable (deliberately or otherwise) to separate a life (career?) in the Cadet forces and the Armed Forces, but for most who are dedicating their time voluntarily for the benefit of the kids in their area, they are clear on the distinction. This change will not make any real difference to our purpose and if it helps some understand what we are (and therefore what we are not) then all well and good.
 

slim

War Hero
Being accepted as an Honorary member of any mess be it SNCO or Wardroom implies that the holder has reached an equivalent standard in both status and educational values to the serving mess members.
There may be instances where the Sea Cadet holder of CPO or Occifer is perfectly acceptable to members of these members and this will be voted on by mess members.
However I would suspect that the majority of sea cadet officers will not be acceptable to wardrooms. If a sea cadet CPO has served in the RN in an equivalent position then I can see no reason why Hon membership of a senior NCO mess be applied for and granted. However this would be the case whether the person was helping out with the sea cadets or just an ex RN SNCO.
 

dapperdunn

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Being accepted as an Honorary member of any mess be it SNCO or Wardroom implies that the holder has reached an equivalent standard in both status and educational values to the serving mess members.
There may be instances where the Sea Cadet holder of CPO or Occifer is perfectly acceptable to members of these members and this will be voted on by mess members.
However I would suspect that the majority of sea cadet officers will not be acceptable to wardrooms. If a sea cadet CPO has served in the RN in an equivalent position then I can see no reason why Hon membership of a senior NCO mess be applied for and granted. However this would be the case whether the person was helping out with the sea cadets or just an ex RN SNCO.
It would seem that some (Ex) Senior Rates are just as much (if not bigger) snobs than the Officers they purport to hate.
 

BARNEYRNSM

War Hero
I am glad the wind has been taken out of the other two cadet forces officers sails,saying that we have enough of our own who think they are "chiefs" or" LT Cdrs" often forgetting as you say,we are youth leaders,I have heard of wavy navy trying to pull up serving personnel for not saluting... FFS,get a grip,it's a hobby! Can't wait to hear what the ACF officers I know have to say about this! On the plus side I will get a new poster to go alongside my CINC Fleet Commendation ;-)
 

Wightsparker

War Hero
(..................straight rings with a letter in the curl like reservists used to have)
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I recall an RNR officer emphasising the fact that he no longer had "R"s in his curls.

He was not impressed by the comment "better than having curls in your......"
 

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
Being accepted as an Honorary member of any mess be it SNCO or Wardroom implies that the holder has reached an equivalent standard in both status and educational values to the serving mess members.
There may be instances where the Sea Cadet holder of CPO or Occifer is perfectly acceptable to members of these members and this will be voted on by mess members.
However I would suspect that the majority of sea cadet officers will not be acceptable to wardrooms. If a sea cadet CPO has served in the RN in an equivalent position then I can see no reason why Hon membership of a senior NCO mess be applied for and granted. However this would be the case whether the person was helping out with the sea cadets or just an ex RN SNCO.

Ah well.

I know for a fact that there are a couple of wardroom members who are SCC Officers and although they have served in the RN previously, neither were commissioned.

Might explain why their entire base is being closed then . . . the shame was too much to bear. ;)
 

slim

War Hero
It would seem that some (Ex) Senior Rates are just as much (if not bigger) snobs than the Officers they purport to hate.
Not so much a case of being a snob, but of seeing standards maintained.
As for hating occifers this has never been the case. A lack of respect for some that I served under I will admit to but there were many more of them that I looked up to.
 

Branch-Hopper

War Hero
Its about time all three cadet forces were on an even keel. It always appears to me that the SCC are very much the poor relations.
True, but this is because the SCC do not "belong" to the MoD. They are part of The Marine Society, a charity set up in the 1700's to train boy sailors. The SCC have yet to be fully adopted.
The CCF (N) however are on an equal footing to their two counterparts.

That completes your egg-sucking course on this topic.......
 

BARNEYRNSM

War Hero
SCC volunteers are only paid a "token" amount to attend compulsory courses or teach on a weekend. As a CCF RN officer I received the same rate of pay as regular LT ish, less X factor and a couple of bits, used to be about £110 a day,(4 years ago) supposedly limited to 28 days a year but I regularly exceeded that. I am certainly not in the SCC for the money!
 
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