Bye Bye RN I've had enough.

Discussion in 'The Fleet' started by damo567, Dec 2, 2008.

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  1. I've done it, my notice is in. After 12 years this latest sea draft has done it for me. I am sick of being constantly demoralised by trying to maintain cheap kit and then having to wait months for stores which are frequently not on the shelf or don't even exist. Then off you go to FOST and no matter why the kit is out of action it is still somewhat your fault.
    This is my first T23 (previous 22&42) I can honestly say I would rather go back to a T42. The extension of the in service date for the T23 is a joke they are falling apart NOW. We have sold ourselves down the river for the sake of the new carriers and I feel the navy will be paying for them for the next 50 years. The T45 will hopefully be a great platform but again at what cost? They were hugely expensive and will do little to plug the massive gap in the numbers of ships to fill our current requirements
    PCP is a joke and doesn't work I know let's call 3 of the chiefs group heads take all their kit off them and then give them no role so they actually end up doing very little.
    Leave is another pain in the backside. There is people on my unit that will have in excess of 10 weeks leave to take by the end of 2009, who wants to be forced to take 10 weeks off in one go?
    Don't get me wrong I am not some bitter and twisted naval leaver, I love the RN and would love to stay in but I really cannot continue to work for a bankrupt organisation that says it cares for it's personnel but really couldn't give a f*!k as long as they get their new carriers.
  2. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Seem to remember saying something similar myself about about 20 months ago. Life is good out here; well I'm happier than I had been for a very long time. I probably now realise more than ever just how poorly the mob now treat their people with remote HR, how the organisation has been cut beyond the bone, how poor the pay really is, how few perks there are................... Good luck (but give it some time before you make the final leap it could just be one of those weeks)
  3. "one of those weeks" ! I'm afraid it's one of those years and next year is panning out to be even worse!
  4. Suppose that you will be really pissed off when we don`t get the Carriers eh?
  5. Are you an M.E by any chance shipmate?
  6. :eek:ccasion5: the RAN are recruiting now! :w00t: Good ships, new kit,sun,surf,girls...and blokes... and Christmas leave.... :thumright:
  7. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    An all too familiar scenario for many - every time I step on an operational war canoe, you remember that you don't half earn the wage. Hence the reason I didn't use 8 years of my 2OE.

    If you're not on a pension, the Careers Service is a good option, certainly I've no regrets. No duties, weekends off (usually- or TOIL), home every night, etc.

    Current downsides (most allegedly due to change in a year or so...) include: abated pension (if you are in receipt of a pension), no medical/dental cover, no SSSA, no MQ entitlement, no GYHP or 'home to duties' or allowances.
  8. Navy ain't changed much then since I left.
    Storerob rules .Spares label Ok part non compatible or wrong item supplied.
    Did get leave and time off though .

    As for keeping the older ships well as long as they update the systems
    during refits the hulls should be Ok .

    :nemo: :nemo:
  9. Fantastic (NOT), a bit of a wake up call to all those on here having a go at Ratings 'whinging' because of having to live in an unheated ship, it's things like that and issues raised by Damo567 that make up the straw that breaks the camels back.
    Hands with 12 years in rapping, thats 12 years of training,knowledge and experience gone. Due in part to underfunding, but also it must be said piss poor upper management.
    Good luck to you Damo567.
  10. Wow even the ads on RR are selling RNZN, smart thinking kiwis!
  11. Look at Fearless, she was 37 years old by the time she was decommissioned. It was bad enough serving on her when she was 20 years old and held together with bits of masking tape and spare bits from Intrepid, what must she have been like at the end? It looks like more of the same, but with one major difference, when Fearless was built, she was built to last and by all accounts the Type 23s were not.
  12. Sorry to hear you've had enough Damo but when the time comes they say you know it. It's best to stay in a job only as long as you continue to enjoy it.

    Personally, I'm just about hanging in there but I often think it won't take a whole lot to push me over the line.

  13. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    Fair shout really from damo. I don't really believe that people near the top have any credible answers to his issues and speaking from recent experience and talking to my contemporaries acorss the mob, I can't honestly say that what he states here is a thoroughly commonplace set of problems which eventually lead to notice giving.

    I refuse to believe that 'people near the top' are completely ambivalent to our problems, however. I suspect there are one or two high ranking people who share our rage and indignation at the way the business end of the navy is currently being banged up the quarterdeck for the sake of compliant headlines and face saving spin. I'm not entirely fooled by this ameliorating puff about 'the steel has been ordered for the new carriers - therefore it is definatley on' as well. Steel is, well, steel and it is pretty easy to reassign it, cancel orders for equipment and dissolve project teams and ride out the folowing two weeks of bickering across the press until Kerry Catona does something else extravagant to take the public mood off things they don't care about.

    Materially I think everyone knows we are on the bones of our rses and that, people is here to stay forever. The only way we will ever see real investment is in the case of national emergency (i.e. when Kerry Catona is less interesting than terrorists) or we go to war, like post 1982. I hear politicians prattling inanely on about 'offices being raided' and 'Baby P' and whilst these may hold some kudos regarding political gravity, they pale into insignificance compared to the national disaster that awaits the country the next time round. We show mild amusement with a watery sympathy chaser when the Russians feck up another warship or submarine yet given the ambivalence of the public, the non-engagement of those we supposedly elect to represent us and in some cases the incompetence of our support network, I am left wondering if and when I wake up in the morning to find one of our vessels in serious trouble and wondering how many colleagues we have lost. Of course, God forbid, should this happen 'those at the top' will be reprimanded or sacked - completely missing the point and blaming the wrong people - but civil servants who make swingeing cuts, rob peter to pay paul and generally log off at night with a clear conscience will close ranks and save their souls.

    Meanwhile, down at the front end, another CPO wraps his tits in and looks at alternative careers.

  14. I don't think the powers that be have learned anything about the Mob or defence in the last 30 years: When I left at the end of the 70s, Jack was leaving in busloads, totally PO'd off with Old Labour's attitude to defence - does anyone remember how the military kept "the Social Contract" with regard to pay rises? (we were the only buggers that did). By the time Thatcher got in, it was too late - the pay rises came in, but by then, we were all half way out the gates and wouldn't come back in.
    At the time, we had a lot more platforms available to carry out the assigned tasks, most of which seemed to work, so there wasn't much overstretch.
    Having read Damo's indictment of what is happening today, Jack will understandably vote with his feet, and all of a sudden, you have a manpower crisis on your hands - you may have a fleet, but no sailors to man it - or is this what the rsoles in power want ?
    I find it astonishing that not one Senior Officer has stood up and asked "Hang on a minute, why are all these people leaving and why ?" Or are they becoming as political as their masters ?
  15. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    I can assure you dirty that the question has been asked over, and over again. Many initiatives have been thrown around, most of them are abject failures simply because there is actually only one way to run the Royal Navy and they broke it trying to fix it for some reason.

    Big problem is this. Back in your day, we were many years away from a proper war where we actually had to take stock and level with ourselves how much of a kicking our arses could take before the shores of this great nation are awash with Nazis. There were only a blessed few still serving when I joined (about the time when you left, coincidentally) who could boast of Suez Crisis experience, when, pre Corporate, it was the only time we really looked like uncovering guns for real. The sixties and seventies were nowt much to write home about really were they for Jack? Royal and Perce were busy with the Micks and we just jollied round the planet coutesy of the taxpayer and pretended to be busy keeping the shipping lanes clear of those nasty Russkies.

    Nowdays we are better involved. Since Corporate we have been involved directly or indirectly with a fair few incidents and in some cases ones where we have had to endure being overlooked in an operational sense as the RAF and Army take the paludits. No probem with that, it is what we all do as a team that counts. The sum is greater than all the parts.

    But all the 'fun' is gone forever. It drained away during the early 1980s when Iraq invaded Iran and the first Gulf patrols started rolling out. Everyone knew that navy (or more correctly good old Henry Leach) had bought us some time against what Thatcher wanted from us (i.e. 35% cutbacks, for a start) when he pleadged us deployable in four days. He must have had his fingers crossed and double crossed for that one.

    And so it goes. The tories couldn't wait to roll out Options For Change when the wall fell and soon after we are drafting females to sea, making vast swathes redundant and welcoming SDR and it's bastard offspring.

    No mention of fun anywhere in any review. Why should we have fun, say the civvies and bean counters? Jack just answers by shuffling his feet, mainly toward the door.

    So here we are, bereft of materially good vessels, barely able to commit to standing objectives, running our ships like pikey's Transits (thanks bernoulli for that one). And the one thing that glues matelots together in these testing times - the one thing that held soldiers together at Ypres, Dunkirk and even at during Corporate - the fact that we do things differently, we identify ourselves as unique and by feck throughout any hardship we can smile and think of better days - is slowly ebbing from our veins. It won't get better. You've only to look how outrageously barometric the Navy News is this month to understand why. For all the yippee-yay-yo they publish on their voluminous and colourful pages, issues of 'real news' are few and far between because they are just plain 'bad news'.

    And people like damo are the proof.

  16. Cheers for the support guys, but I feel this situation will only get worse.
    Just to let you know what the score is, I'm a CMEA (YES an artificer not an ET(ME)!) 12 years done, direct entry. So for all that time and money spent training me, the navy actually got about 3 years benefit out of me. I wasn't planning on leaving at the 12 year point but have little choice. I've spoken to senior officers and basically got the old line "if you don't like it put your notice in" and "you should consider yourself lucky that you got to enter as an artificer" as if it was my fault that that method of entry is closed.
    The ship seem to care very little and in fact at the CO's table I managed to say about 2 words. In the past 12 months we have lost 1 chief tiff and the WO2 has his notice in. Now losing lads is fair enough but this outflow of skilled manpower is going to hit the navy hard. Anyone who knows how PCP is working at the moment will understand how much it relies on leagacy skills and will continue to do so for some time. Even when I leave the ship my post will be gapped for about 6 months, the only concern anyone has shown is the fact I'm the only fridge qualified person on board!
  17. As someone who has recently temporarily put her career on hold, and who is stacking shelves for Xmas instead of being a highly paid lawyer, I am sure I do not have to remind you that it is as shitty out here as it is in there. Work is not so easy to find and if you have financial committments you may be best off gritting your teeth and staying in for a little longer until the recession passes.
  18. Hi there Damo,
    As someone who works within the the fridge industry in Civvy street (and has done for the past 16 years), I can tell you that this industry is woefully short of good engineers, Most of the guys I deal with are no more than fitters and are not able to fault find without having me hold their hands trough basic stuff (most of them don't even know the meaning of superheat, let alone know how to measure it). I am sure you would find work within the fridge industry, especially as an ex-serviceman.
  19. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    One of the things I found when leaving, is most of us look for a plethora of contributing factors, as much to convince ourselves as anyone else, that we're doing it for the right reason. Certainly I did.

    Often the underlying reason is a simple thing that when added to many, we can cite the last one as the final straw.

    As has been suggested, it's worth writing a list of positives & negatives to be certain we are not biting our nose off to spite our faces.

    People will often claim such things as poor management, the Navy doesn't care etc., when the fact is the Navy is an organisation, not a person & there are good managers out there who do care - you just have to find them. Civilian industry is no different & in many ways worse.

    The 12 year point is critical 'point of no return' for many because it's the pause between the pension trap with an AFPS 75 lump sum to entice- people are often swayed by the pitiful cash incentive to leave (ironic how we sometimes have retention bonuses) & the fact that at 12 years we convince ourselves that "I'm young enough to start a new career".

    If you later decide to rejoin, as remote a possibility as that may seem now, you will have buggered-up your pension because you have to join on the AFPS 05 scheme.

    Despite the fact there may be flourishing industries out there, so far the only one's underwritten by the Government are the Armed Forces & the UK banking industry. Choose carefully.
  20. tiddlyoggy

    tiddlyoggy War Hero Book Reviewer

    I empathise with you mate, however, I I do take exception to one of your comments:
    While I agree that PCP is (as usual) an ill thought out concept, the group head statement does smack of sour grapes. Would it be fair to assume that you are not a group head? Believe me, GH is not a walk in the park. Having systems foisted upon you which you have no knowledge or experience of (fuel to prop group being the best example) getting PO's as section heads straight from Sultan, again often with no experience (for example, the first batch of CPO/POET's passing out from Sultan in the new year will all be prop, 2 or 3 of them are greeenies!). If they are doing very little it's because they are loafing tw**s, not because they are group heads. The ET thing (which is a whole issue for debate in it's own right) is an accident waiting to happen, and I'm glad I will be gone before we reap the seeds which we are now sewing for the future of the ME dept.

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