Bullying of Female Officer RAN

[PartTimePongo]

I too , am incredulous that this could happen over such a long period and remain unreported.

However, you only have to look at cases of domestic violence, to wonder why in the hell some women put up with it for so long. But they do.

I am not sceptical per se , but I think we need to wait out on what future investigations may reveal.

This case however , has ben reported on before

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1417054.htm

KERRY O'BRIEN: Australia's defence chiefs received a damning tongue-lashing from an all-party Senate committee last month for a deeply flawed military justice system. It recommended substantial changes, even to the extent in many instances of taking the administration of justice away from military. In considering how he should respond, new defence boss Air Chief Marshall Angus Houston might be advised to look at one case in particular as a symptom of a wider malaise - the story of a bright, young female naval officer whose career is now in ruins, despite the fact that Air Marshall Houston himself once singled her out as a bright, shining star. Two years ago, we told the first chapter in the story of Lieutenant Commander Robyn Fahy and how her career had been all but destroyed by a Navy doctor's misdiagnosis and unethical behaviour. Refused a fair hearing from the Navy, Lieutenant Commander Fahy took her case to the Medical Board of Western Australia. Last year, the tribunal handed down its findings but suppressed her name. Today that suppression order was lifted. Here's Mark Bannerman with chapter two.

 

[Seadog]

Odd that the thread should be revived with such a pointless post (now binned).

Reference a very low brow post Slim asked

Anyone else think that we have another Walt here?

Walt or not, Slim, it is someone with more than one identity. Not the only one around the boards.

Some posts deleted. Thanks for the hint Slim.

 

[polariod]

Just an observation, given the the length of time that this lady was allegedly abused she must have given someone a supposed reason for the abuse. If the reasons were job related how did she achieve her promotions? In the same vein, if the reasons were personality based why did the service not bin her?

Perhaps one of the medics amongst us can clarify the effects of Bipolar disorder for me and this may ease my discomfort at the ladies story.

Pol

 

[fails_as_is]

Reading through the old posts I have experience of the situation that Skunkmeister describes. Whilst on my IST ship we had a guy in the division that was seen as a leg-iron, he didn't fit in and we didn't make any effort to help bring him into the fold. Systematically, we were bullying him and at the time I was probably too naive to notice what was going on. I'm ashamed of the way we treated the guy. It wasn't physical bullying but as skunkmeister says we didn't change to accomodate him. I don't entirely agree with the statement that people should fit in or "f" off, but in the pack mentality exhibited in a close knit group, whether that be a mess deck, office, mess or whole unit, that is what happens.

 

[Wheel-spanner]

This case under discussion, and its subsequent validity, not withstanding, I'll say this much. I met a LOT of bullies who hid behind a rank and a uniform when I was in. One one boat I was on, it was an accepted way of life. I'm talking physical here, not just mental bullying.

It went so far as the Killick of the mess, and the rest of his 'crate each a day when alongside' buddies, offering out part 3's in the JR's heads, for the heinous crime for supporting the opposing football team from his.

Or a certain Killick Stoker who liked to try and shove around those who were duty with him and not yet shutdown qualified. No teaching, just shoving and punching. Although the first time he tried that with me he got thrown down the ballast pump well after a swift dig back to the ribs for his trouble.

Piss poor. And I'm only going back ten years.

If there is any truth in this ladies claim, the perpretrators need DQ's then discharged, regardless of rank.

 

[fails_as_is]

There's a time and a place for robust leadership and management and enforcing that attitude on part 3s is the way that the bullies of the future are moulded and this "it happened to me so it can happen to you" mentality continues. I keep hearing of old salts banging on about how the Navy's gone soft and fluffy, but the responsibility is on everyone to use their discretion and know when it is the right time to kick arse and take names.
This systematic bullying for over 20 years begs the question about what support there was for the officer in question. Were there no sea mums and dads? No bishes? Nobody? !

 

[Wheel-spanner]

Well said Fails_As_Is

There is such a thing as encouragement, where you take time to do Dog Watch instruction, and reward them with a cuppa if they get it right.

And then there is the situation where you dont reward them, have them up all night while you are reading porn in the Diesel Room chair as they do your section work fitting valves etc because you are really a bone idle twat, bucketing them for the fun of it with water from the AC chillers because you are really a sad sick prick.

Paragraph 3 here is what I witnessed happen to others, and had tried on with me. Fortunately I joined at 21, and worked a door beforehand, so was able to 'cope', shall we say, and was left alone in short order. I still feel guilty at not reporting the shit I saw happen to my other mates who were 'babies' like me though.

Still, all said, I still hope one day I'll be at a reunion and see a few faces across the table. Horoscopes will be read on behalf of two of the kids I used to listen to crying at night because they weren't dealing so well with it, if you catch my drift.

 

[andym]

Perhaps one of the medics amongst us can clarify the effects of Bipolar disorder for me and this may ease my discomfort at the ladies story.

Pol

Bipolar disorder, also known as manic-depressive illness, is a brain disorder that causes unusual shifts in a person's mood, energy, and ability to function. Different from the normal ups and downs that everyone goes through, the symptoms of bipolar disorder are severe. They can result in damaged relationships, poor job or school performance, and even suicide. But there is good news: bipolar disorder can be treated, and people with this illness can lead full and productive lives.Sometimes, severe episodes of mania or depression include symptoms of psychosis (or psychotic symptoms). Common psychotic symptoms are hallucinations (hearing, seeing, or otherwise sensing the presence of things not actually there) and delusions (false, strongly held beliefs not influenced by logical reasoning or explained by a person's usual cultural concepts). Psychotic symptoms in bipolar disorder tend to reflect the extreme mood state at the time. For example, delusions of grandiosity, such as believing one is the President or has special powers or wealth, may occur during mania; delusions of guilt or worthlessness, such as believing that one is ruined and penniless or has committed some terrible crime, may appear during depression. People with bipolar disorder who have these symptoms are sometimes incorrectly diagnosed as having schizophrenia, another severe mental illness.

 

[safewalrus]

Couple of things noted here - can't see any replies from the ladies! Come on girls your views are important on this!

also yes I do believe that the mental bullying existed (and still does, in every bloody service in the world!) it's part of what a fighting service person is about to a certain extent! it's knowing when to stop is the thing, and fighting back don't work, 'cause invariably the bully is of a senior position and the 'leaders' take their word against yours - they have to or the system collapses! So you raise above it show the sh**s it ain't working and they find an easier target! But if they don't move on it has to be stamped out - hard.

I do believe this girl was systematically bullied throughout her career, mentally at least, but why? She WAS a leader (you don't get to Lt. Commander 'cause your rubbish and can't make a go of it - of course she WAS the First and should have been aware that a certain amount of resentment would be part of the job. But how much was and how much was pure invention only she will know! Thank God it's not up to me to decide! Incidentally was she a good officer to her staff? or did she in turn kick ass too? interesting little point eh!

 

[oz/RAN]

well all, sorry but I can confirm what the story says.i was in Stirling while the bullying was going on and followed the subseqent events via the RAN navy news and local papers and the generally released signal of the Maritime commander and Cof N.

The doctor was censured by the AMA( Australian medical association) and that led to the RAN lawyers and Australian govt solicitors caving in and settling the issue and paying up.The CO was disciplined internally, consequences unreported.

People through various reasons can accept, tolerate and live with adverse consequences all their lives. No one should ever have to put up with this behaviour , This XO spoke up and was " rocking the boat " as she spoke up about offficers from the ADFA academy all the way to a base CO , all people that should know better. The only way to dig them selves out of the mire of their making was to use of the old boy network to concoct the old " Nuts or sluts" defence, it was only by the involvement of an outside agency the AMA that the lady was proven to be justified.

Further to this another female Lt seaman officer from the Port services building at the same base , same time was being verbally and physically assualted by a LCDR and a PO Bosun.

I have been a contact person for 'Diversity and equity issues".
Best way of dealing with physical threats is to stand up to them on the spot, preferably in company of others and bullys being cowards always backed down , then they try to undermime with lies and rumours , ( being a small Navy rumours and lies would spread from one side of the country to another like a bush fire). But also being a small navy,If a person can be themselves most decent sailors know the truth and further embarass these low life liars.

There are always option for resolving these issues but I found unless it was of an immediate and forceful method of resolution, then it would fester and grow to dominate a persons state of mind and well being to intolerable levels.

Normally when it was passed on to the officer level it would be the old " Harden up princess , take it on the chin " attitude that invariably led to involvement of civil police , court martials etc.
Since this case all Commonwealth govt bosses and defence force officers have a duty of care to report and ACT on any case of bullying , witnessed , reported or unreported officially. Officers have been made liable by OHS laws, and liable financially for any court and lawyers costs if they turn a blind eye or do not take firm action.

 

[Greenie]

Nice one --------------- the old boys and the 'Nuts' trick has been going for a long time .

Don't kick the system cos it kicks back may now be a thing of the past.

 

[polariod]

Perhaps one of the medics amongst us can clarify the effects of Bipolar disorder for me and this may ease my discomfort at the ladies story.

Pol

Bipolar disorder, also known as manic-depressive illness, is a brain disorder that causes unusual shifts in a person's mood, energy, and ability to function. Different from the normal ups and downs that everyone goes through, the symptoms of bipolar disorder are severe. They can result in damaged relationships, poor job or school performance, and even suicide. But there is good news: bipolar disorder can be treated, and people with this illness can lead full and productive lives.Sometimes, severe episodes of mania or depression include symptoms of psychosis (or psychotic symptoms). Common psychotic symptoms are hallucinations (hearing, seeing, or otherwise sensing the presence of things not actually there) and delusions (false, strongly held beliefs not influenced by logical reasoning or explained by a person's usual cultural concepts). Psychotic symptoms in bipolar disorder tend to reflect the extreme mood state at the time. For example, delusions of grandiosity, such as believing one is the President or has special powers or wealth, may occur during mania; delusions of guilt or worthlessness, such as believing that one is ruined and penniless or has committed some terrible crime, may appear during depression. People with bipolar disorder who have these symptoms are sometimes incorrectly diagnosed as having schizophrenia, another severe mental illness.

Thanks Andy,

If this lady was indeed bullied from the beginning of her career I can well imagine that she was a depressive. I know of one person who suffered with depression for years and realising something was wrong visited a number of doctors through these years but the illness was not recognised or treated. She and her family moved to a different area and she was quickly diagnosed by a new doctor and after treatment her whole life changed for the better. This lady now says that the worst part of the depression was the unshakeable feeling of lethargy, hopelessness and isolation.

I can see this description fitting the Aussie lady and making her vunerable.

However if bullying and abuse did take place to the extent she alleges surely someone will have noticed who was not "part of the gang" especially as she must have had drafts to several different ships/bases.

I accept that bullying exists, it did in my time and I'm sure it does in todays modern services but I can only remember isolated instances. Bullying was not rife throughout the RN and I find it hard to believe that there is an epidemic of abuse in the RAN.

Pol

 

[Lingyai]

It's a difficult one in the forces, a catch 22 in some cases. There are the pricks who hide behind their rank to bully because they are incapable of inspiring the troops due to a lack of leadership and so have to get things done by bullying or gobbing off. The peers should be dealing with these people and stopping them but of course we have the "brotherhood" mentality where you support your brothers and back them up and face being the rat if you don't do so.
In an ideal world though it should be the duty of all of us to stand up for the underdog. Sometimes it is not upsetting the advancement apple cart that allows bullying e.g. an infamous CCWEA with form for bullying tried puffing his chest out to me on my first day onboard, unlucky for him though I had my notice in and he lsot his trump card and was well and truly put back in his box but I know of at least two thers over the years who put up with his shit cos he had a say in the promotion boards.
If I was one of these bullies I would worry about the judgement day when he needs a hand out of the burning compartment or is getting a twatting in some foreign port.
If more of us stepped up when people are being bullied the world would be a better place, I know it is easier to join the crowd, be loyal and back your oppos' but one of my favourite saying covers this.
Loyaly above all else, except honour.
Personaly I would rather be labeled a rat than remember the pleading eyes that ask why you don't help.

 

[bindu]

Reckon its a load of rubbish, that kind of behaviour just could'nt go on without some one speaking up.As a general rule Aussies can be bullying ass holes but in her case it does seem a bit over the top to be credible

 

[Jack77]

Like many others I have had grave doubts about many aspects of this officers story. Much of it just does not ring true. However it is obvious that something has happened and I am pissed off the the RAN has settled 'out of court' rather than hold a Board of Enquiry so the whole matter can be dealt with in the open. To settle in such a way indicates the the RAN has something to hide, and to accept such a settlement indicates that the officer concerned is more interested in money than in seeing justice done :?

 

[geoffrey]

This is just one side of the story. Remember the press reports of the RN chaplain who took the Navy to court for harrassment? It painted him as a God-fearing decent man who was driven out of a bullying service for his beliefs.

In fact, as anyone who knows the case, or read the thread on here detailing what REALLY happened (until it was inexplicably pulled) - pretty much everything he said in the tribunal, or to reporters, was misleading rubbish peddled by a compensation-hungry ne'er-do-well.

Sooooo, I'm not going to judge this article on the basis of one report. It sounds impossibly far-fetched, even for Aussies...

 

[come_the_day]

If more of us stepped up when people are being bullied the world would be a better place, I know it is easier to join the crowd, be loyal and back your oppos' but one of my favourite saying covers this.
Loyaly above all else, except honour.
Personaly I would rather be labeled a rat than remember the pleading eyes that ask why you don't help.

Think we've been here before on other threads but I am 100% behind Lingyai here. The biggest difficulty lies with the very senior people who know it is going on on their patch, but do nothing. I think the Army has done better in this respect, having a binding code of behaviour that means, for instance that CO's and senior officers can't get away with unacceptable social behaviour, including bullying. It does need either a compassionate middle man or a whistle blower to out the bully though.

 

[oz/RAN]

Nuff said??
FM CN AUSTRALIA

R 280635Z JUL 06

SUBJ: MEDIATION RESOLUTION WITH LIEUTENANT COMMANDER ROBYN FAHY

A CN AUSTRALIA Z4P/WAA 180708ZMAY06

1. AT THE REFERENCE I STATED THAT I WAS SEEKING TO MEDIATE A LEGAL CLAIM SUBMITTED BY LCDR FAHY. I AM PLEASED TO ADVISE THAT SETTLEMENT HAS BEEN ACHIEVED AND DEFENCE AND LCDR FAHY HAVE BOTH AGREED TO THE RELEASE OF THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT.

QUOTE

2. LIEUTENANT COMMANDER ROBYN FAHY AND DEFENCE HAVE CONCLUDED THE MEDIATION IN RELATION TO LIEUTENANT COMMANDER FAHY'S TREATMENT DURING HER SERVICE AT THE AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE FORCE ACADEMY (ADFA) IN 1986-87 AND HER REMOVAL FROM THE POSITION OF EXECUTIVE OFFICER HMAS STIRLING IN OCTOBER 2000. BOTH PARTIES HAVE AGREED TO THIS STATEMENT.

3. LIEUTENANT COMMANDER FAHY BROUGHT A CLAIM UNDER THE HUMAN RIGHTS AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION ACT 1986 ALLEGING UNLAWFUL DISCRIMINATION. DEFENCE HAS AGREED TO COMPENSATE LIEUTENANT COMMANDER FAHY AND TO FACILITATE HER TRANSITION TO CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT FOLLOWING HER SEPARATION FROM THE NAVY. FOR PRIVACY REASONS, AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MEDIATION AGREEMENT SIGNED BY THE<<
PARTICIPANTS, THE TERMS OF SETTLEMENT WILL NOT BE RELEASED PUBLICLY.

4. DEFENCE RECOGNISES THAT ASPECTS OF THE ENVIRONMENT AT ADFA, DURING ITS EARLY FORMATIVE YEARS, WERE LESS THAN DESIRABLE. AS A RESULT OF THE REVIEW OF POLICIES AND PRACTICES TO DEAL WITH SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND SEXUAL OFFENCES AT AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE FORCE ACADEMY, CONDUCTED BY BRONWEN GREY IN 1998, DEFENCE SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED
MAJOR CULTURAL REFORMS THAT HAVE SINCE HAD A VERY POSITIVE IMPACT. THESE POSITIVE IMPACTS WILL BE FURTHER REINFORCED AND ENHANCED BY THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSE TO THE SENATE INQUIRY INTO MILITARY JUSTICE, WHICH ARE WELL ADVANCED.

5. DEFENCE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT WHILE LIEUTENANT COMMANDER FAHY WAS SERVING AS EXECUTIVE OFFICER HMAS STIRLING THERE WAS A FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH APPROPRIATE MEDICAL PROTOCOLS, AS FOUND BY THE WESTERN AUSTRALIAN MEDICAL BOARD. DEFENCE ACKNOWLEDGES AND REGRETS THAT THIS FAILURE ADVERSELY IMPACTED ON THE CAREER AND REPUTATION OF LIEUTENANT COMMANDER FAHY.

6. THE SAFETY AND WELL-BEING OF OUR PEOPLE IS OF THE HIGHEST PRIORITY TO DEFENCE. THE AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE FORCE IS COMMITTED TO PROVIDING ITS MEMBERS WITH A WORKPLACE THAT IS FREE FROM UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR AND ANY FORM OF DISCRIMINATION.

7. IN BRINGING THIS MATTER TO A MUTUALLY AGREED RESOLUTION, BOTH THE CHIEF OF THE DEFENCE FORCE AND THE CHIEF OF NAVY REGRET THE DISTRESS THAT THIS HAS CAUSED LIEUTENANT COMMANDER FAHY AND HER FAMILY, CAPTAIN DI PIETRO AND HIS FAMILY, AS WELL AS OTHER MEMBERS OF THE AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE FORCE AND THEIR FAMILIES.

8. LIEUTENANT COMMANDER FAHY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT DEFENCE PARTICIPATED IN THE MEDIATION PROCESS IN GOOD FAITH AND THAT THE TERMS OF SETTLEMENT ENTERED INTO BY THE PARTIES ARE A FAIR AND REASONABLE RESOLUTION OF HER CLAIM. LIEUTENANT COMMANDER FAHY AND HER FAMILY ARE PLEASED THAT THIS MATTER HAS FINALLY BEEN BROUGHT TO A CONCLUSION.

9. THE PARTIES HAVE AGREED THAT THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT IN RELATION TO THIS MATTER.

END QUOTE


ENDS

 

[Nutty]

Sounds like a FULL and FRANK HANDS UP WE WERE GUILTY to me by the RAN.

What happened to the bent doctor that miss-diagnosed her to support his superiors actions and put it on paper for use in a legal proceeding. Is he inside for perjury, I doubt it.

Nutty

 

[oz/RAN]

Here you go nutty...
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1417054.htm