'Buck stops here' admits Browne

mikh

MIA
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

finknottle said:
Maxi_77, So if they were as good as ordered to open their grids why did the rest not obey?
Finky, although I cannot find the article, it was reported that one of the royals was holding out for £70,000 as he had heard that LS Turney had received £100,000. Wether this is true or not I cannot say, but some of them at least where more than prepared to sell their stories.

I do agree that this has shown the forces in a very poor light, but it will die down as all stories of this sort do, but the bulk of the blame MUST be taken by those who gave permission for the stories to be SOLD, and it is looking more and more likely that this came from the very top of the political dogpile.
 
In a way, I feel a bit sorry for the 2 naive individuals, and feel that the system has let them down.

Regardless of their own motives for going public, there are well established procedures for dealing with the press in these cases:

1. Why were the 15 subjected to a football style press conference instead of a full debriefing on what they were asked, what they said and under what conditions they were held?

2. Why didn't the MOD put a Media Ops team into action, particularly for the 2 most vulnerable ones, LS Turney (the only female who received most publicity during their capture) and OM Batchelor (the youngest)? The RN has press screeners who are well trained in keeping the scum media at bay and these should have been detailed off immediately and to look after the families of these two.

3. QRRNS Ch 68 says that any account for the press must be approved by a higher authority, and no commitment may be made to publish until approval has been given, and the text of any article or broadcast has been given the OK. Was QRRNs bypassed in this case?

All in all, a sorry episode with many duty of care failings at the highest levels.

Edited for spelling
 
Chat Noir wrote,
Don't get me wrong I am heartily embarrassed by the whole situation and feel the whole debacle has tarnished the professional image of the Naval Service as a whole, but these two have very minor parts and have already exited stage left. The bigger players in this are still there and I'm sure the axe will fall somewhere in the higher echelons and I sincerely hope that their Lordships learn something from this.

No they wont, they never do. In the pacific war the navy found out the need for AEW (airborne early warning) against incoming Japanese kamakazie aircraft, and fourty years latter in the Falklands war what did the navy not have? no AEW. After the war was over command decides to kit out a flight of Seaking helicopters (4 aircraft) as AEW without the range endurance and altitude of the Skyraider of some thirty years earlier. not excactly the best protection for thier men. moving on thirty years from the Falklands and what have we got now? no fixed wing aircraft, a duff AS helicopter, the Merlin, and ships that mainly are kitted out for AS work. I was on the Devonshire in 63 and I remember thinking I hope I dont have to go to war on this crap, the seaslug was useless ditto seacats, there was enough shit onboard for the officer coctail parties to remove it all and put onboard a couple of extra 4.5s. all the officers seemed interested in was an area of the ship which they called the officers grass, this was painted green and woe betide any rating that stepped foot on it, what an awfull way to live. The top brass should go to the defence minister and the PM and state "This war buisiness is not a game, we need the right kit, sea and air, and if we dont get it we will be chucking it all in" Bet they dont though, salary, pensions, lucrative jobs on retierment, ect ect.
 
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

finknottle said:
Maxi_77, So if they were as good as ordered to open their grids why did the rest not obey?
Holding out for better deals perhaps. Who knows though if they have any sense they will suggest they were nothappy with the concept.

I see you agree with the concept the Andrew does not have an unblemished record though.

Also if you are wishing to promote your Scottishness wouldit not be more appropriate to use the Saltire, the flag of the people rather than a fscimile of the royal standard.
 

hammockhead

Lantern Swinger
Poor lad, he got shafted by the Iranians and now he's been shafted by the MOD. I think it reflects very badly on the Lt who was supposed to be in charge and looking after his men.
 

Ships_Cat

War Hero
"Navy deal not good idea - Blair"

I laughed out loud when I read that on the front page of the BBC website. Bleeding obvious (stating the).

Did everyone at Whitehall/No.10 forget what a vicious pack of self serving human detritus the British media (esp. Tabloid chequebook journos) can be, esp. when it shifts copies of the rag?

Tony claims the decision was taken elsewhere, Browne appears to be the one to swing for it. I know they were keen to recover some ground in the propaganda war, so why not manage the information flow instead of a half arsed non attempt. MOD inquiry to learn the lessons?? Not until they start taking professional PR advice, which, not being cheap is unlikely to happen soon.

I dont blame Bean and the LS for talking to the media or taking the money, (I dont agree with it either), but after all, being wafted with tenners must be infinitely harder to resist than the threat of 7 years over the wall in "F-you in the-A on an hourly basis" prison.
Personally I was satisfied with the statements made at the first press conference in which Lt.Carman and Capt. Air made clear their reasons for their actions, I realised it didn't completely answer all the questions and may not have been showy enough for the tabloids but I had hoped that was endex. At least at the end of that meeting they remembered the loss of the four soldiers in Basra. :(
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
Diesel Transfusion wrote
I dont think we can really compare Batch and Turney, ones a sprog, ....... and the other is a LH with a fair bit of time in the mob behind her, she should know better and what her oppos would think and feel about what she has done.

The article from Plymouth Herald by Batch saying he would have made a more informed decision if the Mob had given him better guidance is fair, hes a kid and a JR who was not properly ordered what to do. This whole thing is exactly what happens when there is poor communication from the ranks to the rates.

A LH should have known better, an OM really doesnt know much unless hes told what to do.
'Batch' is a sprog? And you are Long John Silver's sea dad are you?

Diesel_Transfusion wrote

having been a JR in the RNR for about a year and a half.
Did you forget that post? So nobody is giving up their gulch pit for you yet, let alone looking for your opinion on the strengths and weaknesses of a hooky or another sprog.

So those of you who know who I am...........
I think I do - but not from the Navy.
 
Dear me Seadog, attacking the sprogs again! It's one thing savaging the likes of Higgy and me, but not the youngsters, please! :eek: :(

I concur with Diesel Transfusion on this matter, though of course I'm just a Civvy. Do you have a problem with him, as unless I'm getting you confused with another Mod (quite possible, I'm afraid) I recall one or two of DTs posts have mysteriously dissolved into hyperspace, posts that sought to stand up for Batchelor and Faye by presenting cogent, reasoned arguments, in their defence? At the end of the day we need to remember that the youth of today were not subject to the rigours many people of our generation had to endure at school, and this has probably contributed, along with less than comprehensive character training in the RN (due to reduced government investment in the RN) to their less than robust handling of the situation. There is a world of difference between 20 year old males today and the maturity of their predecessors (like you Seadog) who had the benefit of longer and more conventional naval training.

Disgruntled Softy Southerner.
(have just covered head with teflon helmet)
 

PartTimePongo

War Hero
This whole thing is exactly what happens when there is poor communication from the ranks to the rates.
Can you specify what you think the 'poor communication' between ranks and rates was?

At the end of the day we need to remember that the youth of today were not subject to the rigours many people of our generation had to endure at school, and this has probably contributed, along with less than comprehensive character training in the RN (due to reduced government investment in the RN) to their less than robust handling of the situation
Nonsense. Batchelor and Turney didn't get off the transport and say "Oh where's my agent'?
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
I'm not surprised that you have come to Diesel Transfusion's rescue AAC.

I haven't deleted any of DT's posts. I have clocked 'him' as a poster out of his depth on naval matters and I'm calling 'bullsh1t'. I have posted something more neutral and 'helpful' in one of his 'off to BRNC' threads. Go see.

AAC wrote
There is a world of difference between 20 year old males today and the maturity of their predecessors (like you Seadog) who had the benefit of longer and more conventional naval training.
WTF do you know about my naval training?
 

F169

War Hero
Well, I'm not keen on standing in between the slavering of an old seadog and a young whippersnapper like DT (who for all I know may be an ex-CMEM who fancied a quiet time as a JR in the RNR on retirement) but having read DT's comments in this thread they seem to make sense. However young the author may or may not be is surely irrelevant.
 

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