'Buck stops here' admits Browne

#21
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

F169 said:
[...]

His statement came as OM Batchelor, the youngest of the captives from HMS Cornwall in Iran, said he was concerned he had disappointed his colleagues by speaking out in a national newspaper.
The 20-year-old told the Plymouth Evening Herald (11 April 2007) that if the Navy had guided him earlier, he would not have accepted payment for his account and said he was "scared of a backlash" following his deal with the Daily Mirror.
It is an interesting article. I've just read it. Ultimately the Minister must take the rap for his decision to allow these two ratings to sell their stories to the media, either by his sanctioning their conduct, or equally by not intervening to prevent them disclosing their stories to the media. As a politician he could have overridden any decision made by the 2SL (if he is indeed really to blame) to permit this at the outset.

The other thing we need to be cognisant of it that sailors of today, having experienced the contemporary education system, are less likely to be as mentally robust as their predecessors, just as when I left school my generation were less robust than those who had been through the process 20 years earlier in the 1950s.
 
#22
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

wet_blobby said:
Is there anything young Arthur isn't scared of? I think he seriously needs to take a long hard look at himself and his chosen profession.
The mob teaches TEAM all the way, if thats all youve known then youre buggered when it comes down to making the best decision on your own without your mates around you.

Hes just got a bit out of his depth, and thats not his fault. Just become too used to the mob making all his decisions.
 
#23
finknottle said:
Yes it hasn't taken long for these bufoons to destroy hundreds of years of proud naval history, we are the laughing stock of the world. Of course it has pushed on to the back burner the reasons why this capture happened in the first place. No longer will we be able to call countries that we think little of 'Tin pot Regimes' as we are now one ourselves. As for Broon stating the buck stops with him, I think not it stops at No10.
No we have been the laughing stock before and will be again, the RN will get over it it always has and I am sure always will, I suspect though there is a 'good day to bury bad news' story hidden somewhere in here, and as suggested above perhaps 2SL has a good story up his sleave, just in case.
 

wet_blobby

War Hero
Moderator
#24
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

Maxi, I have stated on another thread that I think more of them have sold their stories, the press have been stopped from printing them would be my guess.
 

wet_blobby

War Hero
Moderator
#25
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

Diesel_Transfusion said:
wet_blobby said:
Is there anything young Arthur isn't scared of? I think he seriously needs to take a long hard look at himself and his chosen profession.
The mob teaches TEAM all the way, if thats all youve known then youre buggered when it comes down to making the best decision on your own without your mates around you.

Hes just got a bit out of his depth, and thats not his fault. Just become too used to the mob making all his decisions.
I think my overiding feelings for this chap is sorrow, He has let himself and his team down with is actions AFTER release, but he has also been monumentaly let down by his peers and masters.
 
#26
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

wet_blobby said:
Maxi, I have stated on another thread that I think more of them have sold their stories, the press have been stopped from printing them would be my guess.
Oh I am sure there were other deals pending, just not fast enough in getting into print. My main surprise was that the press didn't move faster in those cases, hence all the sour grapes from those papers who didn't get their act together fast enough that has been commented on elsewhere in RR
 
#27
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

Maxi_77 said:
Really, you think it reasonable to expect a LH to be brighter and more savvy than some of the most senior officers and civil servants in the MOD. In the circumstances I am surprised that only 2 were signed up beforethe dor was slammed shut again. They were told it was OK to talk to the press and take money for it, by those at the very top, and you expect a L/H to 'know' it was wrong. They were thrown to the wolves with no advice, and we are surprised they fell for it, I am more surprised only 2 got caught.
Pride, self respect! They were not thrown to the wolves they offered themselves up with sticky paws outstretched. At least Royal and I am delighted to say so has come out of this catastrophe reasonably intact as they are war fighting in Afghanistan and showing the world their soldiering professionalism.
 
#28
Maxi_77 said:
finknottle said:
Yes it hasn't taken long for these bufoons to destroy hundreds of years of proud naval history, we are the laughing stock of the world. Of course it has pushed on to the back burner the reasons why this capture happened in the first place. No longer will we be able to call countries that we think little of 'Tin pot Regimes' as we are now one ourselves. As for Broon stating the buck stops with him, I think not it stops at No10.
No we have been the laughing stock before and will be again, the RN will get over it it always has and I am sure always will, I suspect though there is a 'good day to bury bad news' story hidden somewhere in here, and as suggested above perhaps 2SL has a good story up his sleave, just in case.
So when was the last time the Senior Service was shown in such a bad light?
 
#29
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

finknottle said:
Maxi_77 said:
Really, you think it reasonable to expect a LH to be brighter and more savvy than some of the most senior officers and civil servants in the MOD. In the circumstances I am surprised that only 2 were signed up beforethe dor was slammed shut again. They were told it was OK to talk to the press and take money for it, by those at the very top, and you expect a L/H to 'know' it was wrong. They were thrown to the wolves with no advice, and we are surprised they fell for it, I am more surprised only 2 got caught.
Pride, self respect! They were not thrown to the wolves they offered themselves up with sticky paws outstretched. At least Royal and I am delighted to say so has come out of this catastrophe reasonably intact.
They were told they could tell their story and take cash, that it was all aproved at the highest level, as it was. What OD or even L/H is going to think twice, they have effectively been told to do it, almost as clearly as having been given an order, and that was what the polititians wanted to happen until it all lew up in their face, save your well intentioned ire for the people really to blame the politicos.
 
#30
finknottle said:
Maxi_77 said:
finknottle said:
Yes it hasn't taken long for these bufoons to destroy hundreds of years of proud naval history, we are the laughing stock of the world. Of course it has pushed on to the back burner the reasons why this capture happened in the first place. No longer will we be able to call countries that we think little of 'Tin pot Regimes' as we are now one ourselves. As for Broon stating the buck stops with him, I think not it stops at No10.
No we have been the laughing stock before and will be again, the RN will get over it it always has and I am sure always will, I suspect though there is a 'good day to bury bad news' story hidden somewhere in here, and as suggested above perhaps 2SL has a good story up his sleave, just in case.
So when was the last time the Senior Service was shown in such a bad light?
How about the odd little grounding, or when we sank a boat alongside in Dolphin, the list is pretty endless really
 
#31
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

finknottle said:
Don't make excuses for the two grubby little gold diggers, the damage they have done to the service is beyond words.
Whilst I would expect a 26 year old LH to know better I would not expect the same of an inexperienced 20 year old JR who has been through the modern education system. It is nothing like as mentally challenging as it was in my childhood, if at all! Most people are not media savvy and can be very naive about the media's behaviour and their novel concept of ethics. One should also be aware that males are, for their given age, typically less mature than females, no matter how you dress it up.

Personally I think we should dispatch Rosie to give him a big hug and tell him some bedtime stories from the ? storybook. Whilst she's doing that I volunteer to become Acting Steward to the PO Stoker! :wink: :D
 
#33
Minor domestics that have no comparison with these events. I think you need to take a few paces back take a deep breath and admit that this lash up has cost us dear on the world stage.
 
#35
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

Prob cos Capt. Air would have told the Marines to not say a goddam thing and theyre prob already feeling shit about the whole thing as it is with out copping out for money - unless it goes through him first, and for the Navy lads, yeh prob felt they had more important things to think about or as above, just werent quick enough as they were for th emost part background people compared to Turney and Batch.
 
#36
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

wet_blobby said:
Is there anything young Arthur isn't scared of? I think he seriously needs to take a long hard look at himself and his chosen profession.

I was going to say 'kittens', but then again, they do have little sharp claws… :?
 
#38
Re: The Buck stops but no resignation

finknottle said:
Diesel_Transfusion, I agree.

Always_a_Civvy, They had time to sell their souls had they so wished.
True, but they weren't quick off the mark. Now had they stuck to goffers instead of beers they might haver reacted more speedily! :twisted:

Also I personally feel sorry for Batch.

Dorothy (alias mother hen).
 
#40
letthecatoutofthebag said:
Diesel_Transfusion said:
Prob cos Capt. Air would have told the Marines to not say a goddam thing and theyre prob already feeling shit about the whole thing as it is with out copping out for money - unless it goes through him first, and for the Navy lads, yeh prob felt they had more important things to think about or as above, just werent quick enough as they were for th emost part background people compared to Turney and Batch.
Perhaps I am being a bit thick but I can't see the basis for your argument. Are you saying that RN personnel are more likely to consider their own well being and give in to such offers? Are you saying that RM personnel are more devoted to Queen and Country and wouldn't ever sell out? Is my wearing dark blue rather than green make me a self-serving money-worshiping, self-publicist? If I am wrong - then I apologise - but the implicit assumptions in your argument are over simplistic and unfounded.

The youth of today, regardless of whether they are in the armed forces or not, are going to have difficulty turning down offers for considerable sums of money. We are being very naive to suggest that military service is simply about queen and country these days. Times have moved on and society has changed and the armed forces (whether we like it or not) have changed with it. Rather than blaming Turner and Batchelor we need to blame the people that came up with the idea of allowing them to sell their stories (not just the Admirals and/or ministers who approved the decision).

The real reason why Turney and Batchelor made the press before anyone is that the media had already identified those who would sell the most papers. The media had already focussed on Turney as the only female and Bachelor as the youngest involved. It was inevitable that they would be the centre of any media bidding frenzy.

It is true that Turney and Batchelor have both made some naive comments and that it is not done any good for the RN's reputation. It is also probably true that the decision to allow them to speak publicly for private gain was made for political reasons rather than rational/ logical/ historical reasons. It is also probably true that they have been given poor guidance and advice from the MoD/RN media ops personnel. I am lucky to have done a media handling course (incidentally, one the best courses I have done in the RN) and I have an insight into how the media work and hopefully I would know what to say and (much more importantly) what not to say. I fear that the media ops personnel may have believed that in this case the media would be friendly and treat the sailors well and that thorough guidance may not have been necessary. We should be blaming Turney and Batchelor less and Fleet Media and the MoD more.
Couldn't agree more letthecatoutofthebag, they are the sacrificial lambs as it were.

The focus of most of the fire has shifted to those two individuals and I think its important to hold onto the fact that they were given express permission to pursue the Z list celebrity status and the cash, £100K (Allegedly), would you?

Don't get me wrong I am heartily embarrassed by the whole situation and feel the whole debacle has tarnished the professional image of the Naval Service as a whole, but these two have very minor parts and have already exited stage left. The bigger players in this are still there and I'm sure the axe will fall somewhere in the higher echelons and I sincerely hope that their Lordships learn something from this.
 

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