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Britain pays £2.5bn benefits to foreigners

Catching the benefit cheats.
As most of the benefits are now computerised it should not be too difficult for a program to be written to check on who is claiming what and where they reside. Place of residence should be cross check-able through the council tax system.
Problem is that the relevant department throws their hands in the air and states that they can't catch these thieves.
Why not put it out to private tender. Private companies gathering evidence of benefit abuse and getting paid only on results.
Or a tax free bounty for any citizen supplying information which leads to a benefit fraud conviction.
 
Slim

The Bounty for Informers would probably get results. Personally, though, I'm always wary of that approach and its attachment to totalitarianism. It's open to abuse by mischief makers or those with grudges. OK, they wouldn't get a payment for pointing at an innocent person, in good faith of course, but that innocent person would likely catch a shed load of aggravation. I think it would then breed distrust within Society and create friction.

There are several scroungers who are permanent fixture in the scruffs bar in my local pub that I would love to have nailed!
 
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Slim

The Bounty for Informers would probably get results. Personally, though, I'm always wary of that approach and its attachment to totalitarianism. It's open to abuse by mischief makers or those with grudges. OK, they wouldn't get a payment for pointing at an innocent person, in good faith of course, but that innocent person would likely catch a shed load of aggravation. I think it would then breed distrust within Society and create friction.

There are several scroungers who are permanent fixture in the scruffs bar in my local pub that I would love to have nailed!

If the person was innocent then he probably wouldn't even know he/she was under investigation. Lets face it if you are on benefits but just collecting what you are entitled to then there would not be a problem. However if you were on benefits and also working in the black economy you would. I feel a bounty system is possibly the only system which would nail both the abuser and the employer using black economy labour.
 
slim said:
Catching the benefit cheats.
As most of the benefits are now computerised it should not be too difficult for a program to be written to check on who is claiming what and where they reside. Place of residence should be cross check-able through the council tax system.
Problem is that the relevant department throws their hands in the air and states that they can't catch these thieves.
Why not put it out to private tender. Private companies gathering evidence of benefit abuse and getting paid only on results.
Or a tax free bounty for any citizen supplying information which leads to a benefit fraud conviction.

Slim

You seem to have this child like belief that the benefit cheat or in fact any villain will enter his name on a occupancy form for a any property to vote or pay council tax. When claiming benefits he will use any number of ID's. The only real people who's names appear on these computer records you want crosschecked are the people who pay tax or genuinely claim benefit.

Have you ever been involved in full time criminal investigations or are you fully engaged pressing the case of the Daily Wail. I spent 16 years in the CID in London and another 13 involved with investigating internal and external fraud with the UK's largest High Street Bookmaker. Most of that investigation was with internal fraud. We even had employees who gave duff pars and HR thru incompetence, lack of knowledge and pressure to get people into the shops failed to do even th most basic checks on new starters.

As to put it out to tender, like the Police NHS, CSA etc they would only go for the easy cases i.e. the genuine resident who has stepped slightly over the line cos they would have targets to meet. Anything that is hard, bin it cos we cannot show it in our results.

Please stop pushing the garbage given out by the Scum, Wail etc. and produce some original thoughts to support the allegations you make.

Pissed off of Tunbridge Wells

Nutty
 
So Nutty basically you are saying that the benefit cheats will continue to win because they are smarter than the authorities.
This being the case leave them to it and do sweet FA
 
slim said:
So Nutty basically you are saying that the benefit cheats will continue to win because they are smarter than the authorities.
This being the case leave them to it and do sweet FA

Unless you the Public are prepared to pay the money needed to produce an efficent dedicated team of investigators, DHSS did have a superb team but budget restraints ripped th guts out of it. Then allow them to investigate the major players without having the Managers looking over their shoulders to ensure they had met the targets to ensure their own jobs and future's then yes they will continue to just play at it as did the Child Support Agency for years. Solution, the British way. change its name and all will be well.

Yes like most terrorist/criminal organisations/freadom fighters they will win cos they do not play by the rules, refuse to follow the script the public expects of them, have no scruples, can come and go at will and will always find a weakness in the investigation's to exploit either by payment or fear. Until the British legal system and public are prepared even if we should and that is another argument as we may finish up with a Gestapo/NKVD law agency the bad people will win.

Nutty
 
A lot of what Nutty has said is true, even so if there was a real will in rooting out those who deliberately defraud the system much more could be done, but one must rmeber that votes depend on this and right now no party can be seen to be being too tough on those who may be in need.
 
Maxi_77 said:
A lot of what Nutty has said is true, even so if there was a real will in rooting out those who deliberately defraud the system much more could be done, but one must rmeber that votes depend on this and right now no party can be seen to be being too tough on those who may be in need.

Its my belief that if the conservative party manifesto included reform and overhaul of the benefit system, tailoring punishment to fit the offender and a complete tightening of immigration control they would win the next election with a large majority.
 
slim said:
Maxi_77 said:
A lot of what Nutty has said is true, even so if there was a real will in rooting out those who deliberately defraud the system much more could be done, but one must rmeber that votes depend on this and right now no party can be seen to be being too tough on those who may be in need.

Its my belief that if the conservative party manifesto included reform and overhaul of the benefit system, tailoring punishment to fit the offender and a complete tightening of immigration control they would win the next election with a large majority.

Perhaps not, the past experience is that any crack down always hits the easy targets, the genuine claimant that manages to do a couple of hours over the top to get a few extra fags or the like. Jow public identifies with this as they can see themselves in the samne situation if their luck fails them, or perhaps have already been in the same situation. What isneeded is the criminal and big time fraud to be targeted, that is what is really siphoning of our cash.

Also at least the illegal immigrants are not blagging the benefit system whilst working in the black ecconomy in the same way our home grown fraudsters do.

Peter
 
Look, zero tolerance is what is required. Start with the folks Peter describes and work up to the ones Nutty describes. Yes it will cost money - but will it really cost more than society is being ripped off for at the moment? Be honest, we are talking at least a couple of billion here.

Before you think I am ever so slightly to the right of Attilla the Hun or that commie Genghis Khan, I believe legislation should be introduced to legalise drugs and sell them at reasonable cost over the counter to over 18s so the police can get on with catching criminals and homeowners can stop worrying about burglars............
 
I fully agree with you Peter that we need to look at our home grown benefit cheats who are working the black economy and claiming benefits. As for cracking down on the easy targets, I get the impression that you see little or no harm in what they do and that they should be left alone. The numbers of these fraudulent claimants far exceed the big time criminals. Large numbers of small illegal claims add up to huge amounts of money stolen from the taxpayer. Perhaps a new organisation is required to tackly large scale fraud.
I make no excuses for being slightly to the right of Genghis Khan in my beliefs that if you break the law expect to pay for doing so (I've had a couple of speeding fines which I paid promptly knowing that I had broken the law and had been caught).
 
F169 said:
Look, zero tolerance is what is required. Start with the folks Peter describes and work up to the ones Nutty describes. Yes it will cost money - but will it really cost more than society is being ripped off for at the moment? Be honest, we are talking at least a couple of billion here.

Before you think I am ever so slightly to the right of Attilla the Hun or that commie Genghis Khan, I believe legislation should be introduced to legalise drugs and sell them at reasonable cost over the counter to over 18s so the police can get on with catching criminals and homeowners can stop worrying about burglars............

F169

The problem I have with part one of your entry is that if zero tolerence is applied to the small time one off Joe Soap who is on benefit but is offered a days cash in hand job and gets caught and punished hard then use lose you street level support and information when you start to move up the ladder. What we realy need to be looking at is tax non payment and tax avoidence as practiced by the City of London and big business that is costing the country far more money. Plus people working on the black.


As for the legalisation of all drugs, a Song I have sung on these and other pages many times over the past few years. Since 1987 myself and many other junior and senior Police Officers have advocated this course but to no avail yet.

NUtty
 
slim said:
I fully agree with you Peter that we need to look at our home grown benefit cheats who are working the black economy and claiming benefits. As for cracking down on the easy targets, I get the impression that you see little or no harm in what they do and that they should be left alone. The numbers of these fraudulent claimants far exceed the big time criminals. Large numbers of small illegal claims add up to huge amounts of money stolen from the taxpayer. Perhaps a new organisation is required to tackly large scale fraud.
I make no excuses for being slightly to the right of Genghis Khan in my beliefs that if you break the law expect to pay for doing so (I've had a couple of speeding fines which I paid promptly knowing that I had broken the law and had been caught).

It is not so much seeing harm as the realities of politics,whils I agree that many a mickle macks a muckle those many mickles are all voters and have friends and relatives, to the polititian these are his meal ticket, and this is part of the problem. As to the big time chaps they are making sizable holes in the cash available, and perhaps if they were taken out of the equation we could afford to be a trifle more generous to the real needy and thus prevent the petty abuse of the system, a win win situation that can be sold to all except the big time criminals.
 
Nutty said:
As for the legalisation of all drugs, a Song I have sung on these and other pages many times over the past few years. Since 1987 myself and many other junior and senior Police Officers have advocated this course but to no avail yet.

NUtty

I agree there is more than enough evidence around to justify attacking the drugs problem in a new way. Prohibition has not worked, and has had a very serious impact on the levels of criminality in the UK today. A way has to be found to remove the profit from the drug dealers and importers business
 

It is not so much seeing harm as the realities of politics,whils I agree that many a mickle macks a muckle those many mickles are all voters and have friends and relatives, to the polititian these are his meal ticket, and this is part of the problem. As to the big time chaps they are making sizable holes in the cash available, and perhaps if they were taken out of the equation we could afford to be a trifle more generous to the real needy and thus prevent the petty abuse of the system, a win win situation that can be sold to all except the big time criminals.[/quote]

Peter, how do you define the real needy? Is it the young non working couple with 5 kids living rent and council tax free and receiving £600+ per week in benefits? Or is it the hardworking Leading seaman with a mortgage trying his best to put enough food on the table to keep his kids fed?
As for the politician worried about votes, there are far more people paying tax and working than the loafing workshy (in most areas of the UK), I don't see any problems for teh politicians
 

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