Britain leads in "Inventions" can we build the goods?

Rumrat

War Hero
I have placed this in Lil's as I know how sweet mouthed you shower of adjective loving/using people are. But serious question.

I bought a Fiat new. I wish I had not bought a Fiat new, secondhand or any other hand. When I ask questions about my pile of metal, the answer is "Oh their all like that", or "Yes its a Fiat thing, exactly the same as Alpha Romeos" their known for it".
The "It" I refer to is the wiring, which is shite, and breaks when touched about 80% of the time. Why?, British cars never did that, and I know that (having lived through it) that people did not initially buy Foreign cars because they were so superior in quality to British, but merely because of the gimmicks and extras that were on them. But when they bought them, they tried to exaggerate the proficiency and performance, which just was not there.
And I talk not of top of the range stuff but everyday family+ cars.
And touching on quality cars, why can the Germans make a go of RR when we could not.
We built German BMW's in Britain so why could we not sell our cars?
Most of the technology in car design is not of the country of ownership of the car, so if it was available from the market how did we not partake.
Korea was designing Jap cars long before producing their own, why did we not jump on the band wagon.
We still produce two of the best cars in the world, and maybe if things pick up the TVR will start up again.(Or so the market says).
Any suggestions?/comments?
 

NotmeChief

Banned
Yea - fcuk off to Korea

Right, that's my abjective out the way.

You are right, of course, but it not just in cars, it seems to be in so many things, we never seem to exploit a good thing after we have invented it.

It's not just about the quality of the car though, the after care should be taken into consideration and the customer services or as is generally more to the point, the 'lack' of customer services and care.

Without a doubt the best people at lack of customer care in the car industry are the French, their cars are of poor quality and the designers seem to take no notice of the constant reports of cheap parts breaking down at low mileage, like their dual mass flywheel that you will be lucky to get past 40,000 miles but costs around £1,400 to replace.

Then their is their stupid emission control that has a bottle of gunge that enters the exhaust but can only be topped up by Peugeot at around £400 per 5 ltr bottle.

That's enough waffle.
 
Rumrat said:
I have placed this in Lil's as I know how sweet mouthed you shower of adjective loving/using people are. But serious question.

I bought a Fiat new. I wish I had not bought a Fiat new, secondhand or any other hand. When I ask questions about my pile of metal, the answer is "Oh their all like that", or "Yes its a Fiat thing, exactly the same as Alpha Romeos" their known for it".
The "It" I refer to is the wiring, which is shite, and breaks when touched about 80% of the time. Why?, British cars never did that, and I know that (having lived through it) that people did not initially buy Foreign cars because they were so superior in quality to British, but merely because of the gimmicks and extras that were on them. But when they bought them, they tried to exaggerate the proficiency and performance, which just was not there.
And I talk not of top of the range stuff but everyday family+ cars.
And touching on quality cars, why can the Germans make a go of RR when we could not.
We built German BMW's in Britain so why could we not sell our cars?
Most of the technology in car design is not of the country of ownership of the car, so if it was available from the market how did we not partake.
Korea was designing Jap cars long before producing their own, why did we not jump on the band wagon.
We still produce two of the best cars in the world, and maybe if things pick up the TVR will start up again.(Or so the market says).
Any suggestions?/comments?

Which are the 2 best cars you speak of?
 

2_deck_dash

War Hero
Sorry mate, I completely disagree.

Land Rovers have possibly the worst electrics of any motor vehicle ever produced in the World, this includes, Fiats, Lancias, Alfas etc.

Since the 70s British cars have been utterly shite, just look at British Leyland FFS!

While we were kicking out Austin Princesses and Allegros, the Krauts were building the second incarnation of the 3 series BMW, Audi Quattro and the MK1 Golf GTI. The Italians had started manufacturing the Lancia Delta which went on to become the Integrale, still one of the most successful rally cars of all time.

British cars are shit, with the exception of the newer Rolls and Landy's post BMW and the newer Jags and Astons post Ford I cannot think of a single British car that has beaten it's foreign rivals in any aspect since the late 1960s.

We love to think back nostalgically about British legends like the Escort Mexico, but the fact remains that the Lancia Fulvia and BMW CSL kicked it's arse. Likewise The RS Cosworth was no match for the Integrale, Impreza or Quattro. The MGB was a decent effort but the Alfa Spider was ten times classier and a lot nicer to drive.
 

JonnoJonno

Banned
Some of our most visionary designers and industry leaders end up being exported.

The English dude, Major Ivan Hirst was sent to Germany to restructure VW. What could he have done had he been given carte-blanche to restructure some of our infrastructure?
 

21_Man

War Hero
We may invent ( well recorded) but 'We' never invest. Most of our car industry was propped up by government subsidy, so they just sat back and awaited the next tranche of rescue monies....no incentive

Always thought the Alfa problem was rust
 

Rumrat

War Hero
JonnoJonno said:
21_Man said:
Always thought the Alfa problem was rust

I think they used to be. I am told they now build a very nice diesel engine, which is pretty nippy and reliable.

My daughter has an Alpha diesel, and as you say it is shit off a shovel.
And then the alternator packed up at 2500 miles. When they fixed it the window motor left hand side stopped working.

And 2DD you cannot disagree with me, I haven't praised British cars, I asked the question why?
And I was actually referring to family saloon cars, which before the Japs and others cornered the market were not any worse than there competitors, just lacked the goodies.
I do not know if you are aware of the fact that at one time in the not to distant past (and many on here will vouch this as safeguard) a heater and number plates, plus seat belts after they became mandatory were classed as "EXTRAS" on British built cars.
As for British cars well we only build two now the Morgan, and the Aston Martin,( Aston Martin being a consortium but still a majority British stake-holding) Range rover and Rolls are both foreign, Indian and German respectively.
Having just googled, I see TVR are up and running again and are still mainly British by virtue of being majority share holders.

My fiat is 8 years old, I keep it now as I am interested to observe just how fucked up it really is. It looks great as it has never been hammered, it has only 36,000 miles on the clock as it has only ever been used as a second car until about a year ago.
It has thus far required, a new alternator, two new front springs, a new thermostat £84.00 plus fitting, a new exhaust, rewiring of the fuse panel to bring electricity back to three points including windows, 4 new coil packs (there are 4 fitted pencil style) new rear disks and new calipers all around, they are notorious for seizing.
My car prior to this one was a Ford Mondeo diesel which I did 136,00 miles in trouble free and then gave it to my son who did another 100,000 without much ado other than normal wear and tear stuff.
 

2_deck_dash

War Hero
Perhaps it's just modern cars in general. I was seriously considering getting a Volvo XC90 until I read the reviews. Apparently the wheel bearings need replacing every 20,000 miles and the transmission control on the autos blows up at exactly 60,000. When even Volvo are churning out shite cars, it says something about modern vehicles in general.
 

Rumrat

War Hero
2_deck_dash said:
The "It" I refer to is the wiring, which is shite, and breaks when touched about 80% of the time. Why?, British cars never did that,

I was disagreeing with this part.

Well the reason I'm pissed with Fiat is that when they moved the loom to renew my Alternator it broke in two places, and apparently it happens a lot on Fiats and Alphas and I'm not talking old buggers. My car was only two when it happened and I bought it new. The Fiat I got rid of was even worse. I wasn't prejudice when I bought them, I bought two of the twots brand spanking new in 2002. I musta been pissed, or else the salesman was a bastard stoker. :twisted: :roll:

I spray cars (not for an occupation although once did ) and pull wiring about all over the joint, I have never known it happen on any of the old heaps I've sprayed.
I would not recommend a Fiat to anyone, and you can only speak as you find. Some of the old Austins Morris and Standards I had when I was a kid and they were fantastic old buggers, no refinements but thoroughly reliable. :)
 
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