Britain leads in "Inventions" can we build the goods?

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by Rumrat, Aug 23, 2010.

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  1. I have placed this in Lil's as I know how sweet mouthed you shower of adjective loving/using people are. But serious question.

    I bought a Fiat new. I wish I had not bought a Fiat new, secondhand or any other hand. When I ask questions about my pile of metal, the answer is "Oh their all like that", or "Yes its a Fiat thing, exactly the same as Alpha Romeos" their known for it".
    The "It" I refer to is the wiring, which is shite, and breaks when touched about 80% of the time. Why?, British cars never did that, and I know that (having lived through it) that people did not initially buy Foreign cars because they were so superior in quality to British, but merely because of the gimmicks and extras that were on them. But when they bought them, they tried to exaggerate the proficiency and performance, which just was not there.
    And I talk not of top of the range stuff but everyday family+ cars.
    And touching on quality cars, why can the Germans make a go of RR when we could not.
    We built German BMW's in Britain so why could we not sell our cars?
    Most of the technology in car design is not of the country of ownership of the car, so if it was available from the market how did we not partake.
    Korea was designing Jap cars long before producing their own, why did we not jump on the band wagon.
    We still produce two of the best cars in the world, and maybe if things pick up the TVR will start up again.(Or so the market says).
    Any suggestions?/comments?
  2. Yea - fcuk off to Korea

    Right, that's my abjective out the way.

    You are right, of course, but it not just in cars, it seems to be in so many things, we never seem to exploit a good thing after we have invented it.

    It's not just about the quality of the car though, the after care should be taken into consideration and the customer services or as is generally more to the point, the 'lack' of customer services and care.

    Without a doubt the best people at lack of customer care in the car industry are the French, their cars are of poor quality and the designers seem to take no notice of the constant reports of cheap parts breaking down at low mileage, like their dual mass flywheel that you will be lucky to get past 40,000 miles but costs around £1,400 to replace.

    Then their is their stupid emission control that has a bottle of gunge that enters the exhaust but can only be topped up by Peugeot at around £400 per 5 ltr bottle.

    That's enough waffle.
  3. Which are the 2 best cars you speak of?
  4. Sorry mate, I completely disagree.

    Land Rovers have possibly the worst electrics of any motor vehicle ever produced in the World, this includes, Fiats, Lancias, Alfas etc.

    Since the 70s British cars have been utterly shite, just look at British Leyland FFS!

    While we were kicking out Austin Princesses and Allegros, the Krauts were building the second incarnation of the 3 series BMW, Audi Quattro and the MK1 Golf GTI. The Italians had started manufacturing the Lancia Delta which went on to become the Integrale, still one of the most successful rally cars of all time.

    British cars are shit, with the exception of the newer Rolls and Landy's post BMW and the newer Jags and Astons post Ford I cannot think of a single British car that has beaten it's foreign rivals in any aspect since the late 1960s.

    We love to think back nostalgically about British legends like the Escort Mexico, but the fact remains that the Lancia Fulvia and BMW CSL kicked it's arse. Likewise The RS Cosworth was no match for the Integrale, Impreza or Quattro. The MGB was a decent effort but the Alfa Spider was ten times classier and a lot nicer to drive.
  5. Some of our most visionary designers and industry leaders end up being exported.

    The English dude, Major Ivan Hirst was sent to Germany to restructure VW. What could he have done had he been given carte-blanche to restructure some of our infrastructure?
  6. We may invent ( well recorded) but 'We' never invest. Most of our car industry was propped up by government subsidy, so they just sat back and awaited the next tranche of rescue incentive

    Always thought the Alfa problem was rust
  7. I think they used to be. I am told they now build a very nice diesel engine, which is pretty nippy and reliable.
  8. My daughter has an Alpha diesel, and as you say it is shit off a shovel.
    And then the alternator packed up at 2500 miles. When they fixed it the window motor left hand side stopped working.

    And 2DD you cannot disagree with me, I haven't praised British cars, I asked the question why?
    And I was actually referring to family saloon cars, which before the Japs and others cornered the market were not any worse than there competitors, just lacked the goodies.
    I do not know if you are aware of the fact that at one time in the not to distant past (and many on here will vouch this as safeguard) a heater and number plates, plus seat belts after they became mandatory were classed as "EXTRAS" on British built cars.
    As for British cars well we only build two now the Morgan, and the Aston Martin,( Aston Martin being a consortium but still a majority British stake-holding) Range rover and Rolls are both foreign, Indian and German respectively.
    Having just googled, I see TVR are up and running again and are still mainly British by virtue of being majority share holders.

    My fiat is 8 years old, I keep it now as I am interested to observe just how fucked up it really is. It looks great as it has never been hammered, it has only 36,000 miles on the clock as it has only ever been used as a second car until about a year ago.
    It has thus far required, a new alternator, two new front springs, a new thermostat £84.00 plus fitting, a new exhaust, rewiring of the fuse panel to bring electricity back to three points including windows, 4 new coil packs (there are 4 fitted pencil style) new rear disks and new calipers all around, they are notorious for seizing.
    My car prior to this one was a Ford Mondeo diesel which I did 136,00 miles in trouble free and then gave it to my son who did another 100,000 without much ado other than normal wear and tear stuff.
  9. I was disagreeing with this part.
  10. Perhaps it's just modern cars in general. I was seriously considering getting a Volvo XC90 until I read the reviews. Apparently the wheel bearings need replacing every 20,000 miles and the transmission control on the autos blows up at exactly 60,000. When even Volvo are churning out shite cars, it says something about modern vehicles in general.
  11. Bristol are still going. It's what God drives.
  12. Well the reason I'm pissed with Fiat is that when they moved the loom to renew my Alternator it broke in two places, and apparently it happens a lot on Fiats and Alphas and I'm not talking old buggers. My car was only two when it happened and I bought it new. The Fiat I got rid of was even worse. I wasn't prejudice when I bought them, I bought two of the twots brand spanking new in 2002. I musta been pissed, or else the salesman was a bastard stoker. :twisted: :roll:

    I spray cars (not for an occupation although once did ) and pull wiring about all over the joint, I have never known it happen on any of the old heaps I've sprayed.
    I would not recommend a Fiat to anyone, and you can only speak as you find. Some of the old Austins Morris and Standards I had when I was a kid and they were fantastic old buggers, no refinements but thoroughly reliable. :)
  13. TVR. The most unreliable cars ever.

    Have to agree with 2DD, British cars have always been shite, Land Rovers have an abysmal history. As for the French using cheap parts, that is why their cars are cheap, shocker. With the exception of the Citroen DS3 which my missus has just bought, which is essentially a mini with a nicer frock.

    You get what you pay for, that said I have owned a Fiat and had no issues with it at all.
  14. You are of course totally right, I forgot the fuck about them, my dad owned one of the buggers not long before he died.
    Nice one you old bugger. :D
  15. There are a couple of mental track car companies still knocking about like Ariel and Westfield, but these are cars that should never be driven on the road, unless of course you are a mental.
  16. For a bespoke car I'd still buy German.

    Weismann all the way.
  17. If you're going mega bespoke you could always go down the Italian route and buy a nice car and have it completely rebuilt by a coach builder.

    This started life as an Enzo, the owner took it to Pininfarina and they turned it into this:

    Likewise this was a Spyker C12, a bit of tweaking by Zagato and this was born:

  18. Ok so when I hate you enough I'll sell you mine.
    I'm glad you earn enough to pay for the CHEAP parts. A fuckin thermostat costs £84 squid as you have to buy the housing its in as well.
    Friggin rip off. :twisted:
    Ok the Weismann is nice but hardly mass produced, and when you say British cars have always been crap no they haven't, how far you going back with that statement.
    In the 60's nothing could touch British cars for quality or design. It was the strikes that killed the industry by pushing the price for quality through the roof. Japanese cars were rot boxes in the early years, but the people who bought new cars didn't care as they would not own them by the time the "Rot Set In" to coin a phrase.
    The plus for them was a free fitted radio, electric aerials, and no bags of dosh to pay for what we called "Extras".
    We built shite cars after that to keep the price down and thus became crap at it. You cannot compete price wise with a country that can build a car(then) for a third as much as you ( peasants working for peanuts) and sell it half the price.
    When our industry was destroyed their prices rose.

    Edited to say, if you look on google you will see hundreds of people requesting help with problems that have beset their Fiats, especially the Stilo. Yes all cars have inherent faults but at £45 + vat a throw and needing to replaced in pairs often I hardly call the coil pack problem cheap or reliable.
  19. Try googling BMW turbo problems, you might just change your mind.

    There is nothing special about German cars, they are made on the same machinery and built down to a price and not up to a quality the same as all cars.
  20. Been perfectly happy with my BMW, as is my brother and my neighbour, no problems here. This being my 11th car, I can assure you it is streets ahead of anything else. Like it or not, German cars shit on the opposition, including the Japanese.

    For my next purchase I shall be buying an E-class.

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