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Sumo

War Hero

fishhead

War Hero
The Members of Parliament have got themselves into a proper pickle regarding Brexit and each side of the debate is keen to point the finger at the other as to who should accept the blame.
The latest wheeze is to delay Brexit for a couple of months(half of which they will take as Easter holidays) to search for a better deal. My question is what deal could the EU possibly offer in the two months following the end of March that they couldn't offer right now?
Another faction want another referendum in the hope that the electorate can help make a decision on where to go from here. They're saying that remaining in the EU should be a choice but we've had that vote already so really the vote should be to decide between the unloved Mrs May deal or no deal.
I think the electorate will get very bloody minded if forced to vote again given the MP's willingness to disregard any result they don't like. Interesting times.
 

InstaDan

Lantern Swinger
They're saying that remaining in the EU should be a choice but we've had that vote already so really the vote should be to decide between the unloved Mrs May deal or no deal.
I think the electorate will get very bloody minded if forced to vote again given the MP's willingness to disregard any result they don't like. Interesting times.
I very much agree that a referendum with options of "No Deal" and "May's Deal" is probably the way to go.

However, I don't think you can simply write this off as a case of "we don't like the result, let's try again".

Even the staunchest of Brexiteers must concede that leaving the EU is not as cut and dry as previously indicated.
 

Exprop

Lantern Swinger
The Members of Parliament have got themselves into a proper pickle regarding Brexit and each side of the debate is keen to point the finger at the other as to who should accept the blame.
The latest wheeze is to delay Brexit for a couple of months(half of which they will take as Easter holidays) to search for a better deal. My question is what deal could the EU possibly offer in the two months following the end of March that they couldn't offer right now?
Another faction want another referendum in the hope that the electorate can help make a decision on where to go from here. They're saying that remaining in the EU should be a choice but we've had that vote already so really the vote should be to decide between the unloved Mrs May deal or no deal.
I think the electorate will get very bloody minded if forced to vote again given the MP's willingness to disregard any result they don't like. Interesting times.

I am becoming increasingly irritated by the revisionist version of history reported in many of the newspapers and then regurgitated here and elsewhere. If you take the trouble to check on what was actually said and done in the run-up to the referendum and in the period you will find it is at some variance from what is generally thought.

For instance, the idea that a vote for 'leave' anticipated a no-deal brexit is false. The manner by which we would leave the EU was studiously avoided by Vote Leave, Leave. EU or any of the other pressure groups in their campaigning as it was by all of the politicians involved. There is a possibility that some who voted leave could have been wanting to avoid any involvement with any combination of the single market, the customs union, free movement or the ECJ but that would still be possible in a variety of ways and it did not suit the leave campaigns (who expected to lose the referendum) to be more specific. They wanted to attract votes from anyone who had an objection to any part of the EU project rather than confine their appeal to the purists now supporting the ERG.

It is also not true that a second referendum was not anticipated. It was thought by many leave campaigners before the vote that electors should be given the chance to vote for the process of leaving and then given a second vote later on the process of leaving. Boris Johnson was still advocating this after the referendum as part of his leadership bid (before Gove's intervention!).

Thus, it is not true that 17.4 million people are being misled by parliament. Parliament is doing exactly what it should and examining the best way to carry out what the referendum requested - to leave the EU. It may be that they will decide that no deal is the best way despite the problems with N Ireland. It may be that they will decide that the Prime Minister's deal represents an acceptable compromise. Or it may be that they decide that we need to maintain some form of customs union (with all the concomitant issues). It is even possible that they may be unable to come to a conclusion which enjoys a majority amongst them and that they will need to consult the electorate on what is thought the best of the available alternatives - a 'peoples' vote'. If such a vote eventuates and a majority now believe we should remain that will become the new objective. Such a result would not be a betrayal of the earlier referendum, it would be a change of mind by the electorate - not something to blame parliament for.

I am as cynical as anyone with regard to the motives behind the actions of all of the politicians involved but they must be judged on those actions and not on the basis of what a newspaper columnist asserts they did or on what their proprietor would like to pretend they did.

Please don't fall for it.
 

Sumo

War Hero
If we intend to trade with the EU, I think we do. Then we have to comply with all EU rules e.g H&S, REACH etc. or we cannot trade. The ECJ is outside the remit of the EU. So the the least painful trade deal is what we may aspire to. Whether this is achievable by crashing out and joining the WTO, we will have to wait and see the direction this goes. At the moment anyone's guess is as good as another, as nobody seems to know?
 

huwshpis

War Hero
If we intend to trade with the EU, I think we do. Then we have to comply with all EU rules e.g H&S, REACH etc. or we cannot trade. The ECJ is outside the remit of the EU. So the the least painful trade deal is what we may aspire to. Whether this is achievable by crashing out and joining the WTO, we will have to wait and see the direction this goes. At the moment anyone's guess is as good as another, as nobody seems to know?
No, @Sumo, the ECJ is part of the EU. It's the ECHR that isn't EU but Council of Europe, which is a totally different body. It gets confusing because there are various "Councils" within the EU as well.
 

Sumo

War Hero
Submariners, when you know you’re wrong admit it, hide that you are wrong, knowing you are wrong and it comes out later that you were wrong, then you is in the shit.
 

dapperdunn

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Submariners, when you know you’re wrong admit it, hide that you are wrong, knowing you are wrong and it comes out later that you were wrong, then you is in the shit.
It doesn't matter who you are. I'm unsure about this whole 'Submariners are superhuman' thing
 

Sumo

War Hero
It doesn't matter who you are. I'm unsure about this whole 'Submariners are superhuman' thing
only cookie:rolleyes::D:D boys

It’s not a superhuman thingy, it is a training methodology, which instils the knowledge that your oppo’s have your back. The knowledge that when the shit hits the fan, those around you will be doing the right thing, trainees stand back and learn.
 
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dapperdunn

War Hero
Book Reviewer
only cookie:rolleyes::D:D boys

It’s not a superhuman thingy, it is a training methodology, which instils the knowledge that your oppo’s have your back. The knowledge that when the shit hits the fan, those around you will be doing the right thing, trainees stand back and learn.
That's not exclusive to Submariners as I've said before. You'd be surprised what 'Skimmers' have to learn these days.
'All of one company'
 

Sumo

War Hero
That's not exclusive to Submariners as I've said before. You'd be surprised what 'Skimmers' have to learn these days.
'All of one company'
as an ex skimmer, I understand they have copied or taken some of the ideas from boats, of the knowledge (Basic) that everyone on board should know.
I another life I was involved in putting Skimmer type TAB's into service.

Edited

@dapperdunn when I first joined skimmers it was, ME/WE had the best ship knowledge, normally from silent hour’s rounds and damage control parties but this was normally section orientated e.g the area of you damage control party, SS tended to be first aid.


When I joined boats and was faced with a Part III there were 3 levels, engineers complete all levels, other branches less. But everyone had to have a basic, eg if the pipe came “shut Bulkhead doors” it didn’t matter who you were you had to know how to shut down all bulkheads, chefs due to the nature of storing victuals all over the boat would find themselves in Ovies back aft in the hanging gardens trying to work out what was left from the backafties on-watch snacks. A massive ships knowledge step up, if skimmers have now followed this then all the better.
 
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