Brexit re article 50 it must not be suspended/stopped under any circumstances Please sign the petition

#21
There is a FANTASTIC 'piece' from an Australian Sky News anchor on the interweb. Simply, she is asking WTF is going on, not just with Brexit, but all the in-fighting going on. . If you can find it (I've seen it and can't be arrsed trying to find it again) then I commend it to the house!
 

Levers_Aligned

War Hero
Moderator
#23
Stop twisting dude. Leave got the majority.
Hang on. What am I twisting? Can you offer any counter to my statement? Leave did get the majority, but it is disingenuous to say 'the country voted' when only 37% of those eligible to vote rocked up on referendum day and opted out. So if you are calling that a 'majority' fine, but that doesn't include those who voted to stay and an unknown number who were eligible but who didn't vote. That is not 'the country'. It is 'the majority of those who voted, on the day'.

No one in the 'Pro-EU brigade' have come up with any positive reason to stay in, with exception of insults & fear.
Sorry? The positive reasons to stay in are pretty evident. Here's one. We wouldn't be in the sorry state we are at the moment. Here's another. Over the next five years, we wouldn't have a serious skills and labour gap in our NHS. Here's another. Minus nine percent drop in Gross Domestic Product if we leave without a deal and two percent down even with the most optimistic outcome.

You're making it up like all politicians.
Like 'all politicians'? What … like Boris Johnson and his £350m per week on the side of his bus, statement? I mean, I've heard some whoppers over the past thirty months, but that one takes some beating.

And ps: The stuff I give to you here isn't from 'politicians'. It's from the central banking organisation of the UK. The organisation which sets interest rates and regulates our economy to stop it going further into recession. And the independent commission who fact check BoEs statements and reinforce it with their own. They aren't on anyone's payroll or persuasion and aren't allowed to be. If they found anything wrong - or anyone pro-Brexit who was clever enough to scrutinise the figures, don't you think we'd have seen that out in the news? Or do YOU have some workings out of your own to show us where the BoE and ONS are completely wrong?

Take your time. Sixty nine days.

Get some balls & get behind the majority.
For what? To exit the economic bloc without a deal or any trade agreements? See the news tonight? One of yours - Liam Fox - Trade Secretary … the bloke who said arranging these deals would be a piece or piss, admitting it won't be a piece of piss and also admitting he has arranged … no deals. Well done, feller. Get behind him, everyone!

Can you arrange any trade deals, Knotty?

levers
 
#24
Part of the reason for no deal with the EU is they have said they are not going to do any until after March, we will have to wait and see how fast money talks. The banking and business are and have to look at worst case, if we just leave no deals and no one speaks to us 9%, but like all stats they are using historical data.
They are trying to pridict the unknown, why do they not look at pre EU data, out dated May be, but this country survived.
Germany and Spain have indicated they are willing to talk trade, why? We are one of their biggest customers.
The EU do not want to make it easy and would love this country to stay, how much would they cane us then, because they need rich nations to support the poorer ones.
Give us a few years to sort out the deals and which other countries will look to follow? Like our future who knows?
 
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#25
Levers you are only seeing the referendum result and vote from your Remain point of view.

1. 37% is still more than 34% that voted to remain. Non-voters cannot be counted by either camp and their opinions are null and void if they cannot be arsed to get out and vote.

2. Cameron extended the voter registration deadline as he was scared of the result and hoped for an upsurge in the remain vote. In other words he skewed the vote to the benefit of remain and it still was not enough.

3. Osbourne threatened that in the event of a leave vote, we would need an immediate emergency budget, swingeing cuts in services and tax rises, that the possibility of WW3 would be considerably closer, that many jobs would disappear instantly. Not once we left, but immediately.

4. A great deal of the forecasts by the BoE were skewed in favour of remain and as usual, many were wrong.

5. Cameron stated in his propoganda leaflet that Leave means Leave and whatever the outcome the government would implement it.

If the remain camp had actually got behind leaving from the outset and actually looked forways to make the best of it rather than putting up objections and blockers at every stage, we may actuallly be in a far better place today. To lobby for the govt to give out its negotiating position and red lines in advance of the negotiations was crass stupitdity that would only lead to the EU being able to use them to give us the absolute minimum when we should have gone in from a position of relative strength. Who gives the other side your position before negotiating? No one!
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
#27
My reasons for voting leave:-

  • I do not want to see the UK become part of the United States of Europe, ruled by Germany assisted by the French.
  • In the main the EU is ruled by unelected officials, they set the rules not elected politicians.
  • The whole EU set up is in my opinion corrupt with a whole train of hangers on all drawing enormous salaries whilst waiting for their pensions to kick in. (Kinnocks anyone?)
  • I believe that the law of the land should be made and enforced in the UK not by foreign bodies.
  • The UK should be able to decide who enters and stays in the Country, so that if we need a thousand workers for the NHS, for example, we can permit that number to come in for the duration of their contract.

  • There are more reasons but that will do for a start.

  • I believe that a lot of the chaos has been caused by the Remain click of politicians, including May, deliberately putting all of their cards on the table to enable the EU an easier task of blocking our exit. That exit will be a disaster for the EU and may in the not too distant future lead to the whole thing collapsing.

  • At the start of the whole thing we signed up to join a trading group, not to further the German aims of a 4th Reich.

  • Rant ends..
 
#33
I voted leave to piss of the remoaners, done well so far:rolleyes:;)
The posts above from past and present Labour leaders just goes to show they don't care, they just want their go at No10 two faced lying bastArds.
 
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#34
I'm not Farages greatest fan, but, here are some interesting points about democracy in the EU.

Farage can make sense, it's that type of EU bollix that spurred on a leave majority.
It is blatantly obvious why the non elected EU gravy train riders want to make our leave difficult, once others see us survive (as long as our government don't screw up) and choose to leave, their very nice highly paid, with massive pensions jobs would go?
 
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janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
#35
Another Aussie making some good points..


Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...

"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.

Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.

The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.

But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?

A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.

Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.

Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.

Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.

Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.

Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).

UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.

As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."

Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015
 
#36
Strange thought, what if the PM is giving 2 options her deal or no deal, knowing that Parliament will not sign her deal, so she then delivers what the majority voted for, out of EU and EU control, could she and her cabinet be that devious?
 
#37
There is plenty of noise from remainers for the holding of a second referendum. Firstly would Parliament ever agree what question would be put to the electorate and secondly would they give a solemn pledge to respect the outcome.
Everyone should remember that up until now parliament has chosen not to respect the decision from the last referendum so can they be trusted to act out of character.
 
#39
I'm feeling very left out :(

Everyone else seems to be so sure they know the answers.

Am I the only one to admit that they they don't know?
Join the PM, she thought she knew and then she didn't.
I personally have no idea how this will pan out, once they (politicians) can make a clean plan going forward, we might have a chance.
 

Knotty

Lantern Swinger
#40
Hang on. What am I twisting? Can you offer any counter to my statement? Leave did get the majority, but it is disingenuous to say 'the country voted' when only 37% of those eligible to vote rocked up on referendum day and opted out. So if you are calling that a 'majority' fine, but that doesn't include those who voted to stay and an unknown number who were eligible but who didn't vote. That is not 'the country'. It is 'the majority of those who voted, on the day'.



Sorry? The positive reasons to stay in are pretty evident. Here's one. We wouldn't be in the sorry state we are at the moment. Here's another. Over the next five years, we wouldn't have a serious skills and labour gap in our NHS. Here's another. Minus nine percent drop in Gross Domestic Product if we leave without a deal and two percent down even with the most optimistic outcome.



Like 'all politicians'? What … like Boris Johnson and his £350m per week on the side of his bus, statement? I mean, I've heard some whoppers over the past thirty months, but that one takes some beating.

And ps: The stuff I give to you here isn't from 'politicians'. It's from the central banking organisation of the UK. The organisation which sets interest rates and regulates our economy to stop it going further into recession. And the independent commission who fact check BoEs statements and reinforce it with their own. They aren't on anyone's payroll or persuasion and aren't allowed to be. If they found anything wrong - or anyone pro-Brexit who was clever enough to scrutinise the figures, don't you think we'd have seen that out in the news? Or do YOU have some workings out of your own to show us where the BoE and ONS are completely wrong?

Take your time. Sixty nine days.



For what? To exit the economic bloc without a deal or any trade agreements? See the news tonight? One of yours - Liam Fox - Trade Secretary … the bloke who said arranging these deals would be a piece or piss, admitting it won't be a piece of piss and also admitting he has arranged … no deals. Well done, feller. Get behind him, everyone!

Can you arrange any trade deals, Knotty?

levers
I honestly can't be bothered. You bore the ties off of me. Endex
 

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