Brexit re article 50 it must not be suspended/stopped under any circumstances Please sign the petition

As we all know; the referendum vote took place in 2016.
Nice of you to drop by and well observed.

I personally voted 'To leave the European Union'. This does not make me a Brexiteer or any other such name that anyone wishes to label me with. It simply means that I put my cross against that choice as opposed to the other choice which was 'Remain a member or the European Union'.
Yeah. Yeah, it does. I know you don't like to lie down with the dogs who have fleas but voting to leave makes you a Brexiter. See, a binary referendum has that effect. You're in (Remoaner, or whatever) or out (a Brexiter) And the current situation is your choice, not mine. So have some responsibility and own it, eh?

As we all know the majority of voters went with the same choice as mine.
You are doing well with this, aren't you?

I believe that various members of parliament and many other high level figures that have the ear of the media spun complete fabricated stories during the election campaign, but I also believe that came from those wishing to remain and also those wishing to leave. Frankly it made no difference to the way that I was going to vote. My mind was made up long ago and no amount of bullshit, statistics, tears, burning bras, threats etc would convince me to vote otherwise.
Okay. But you've kinda not illustrated why your mind was made up, or supplied any informed shape toward what steered your shaky hand toward the 'Out' box. Why not? I mean, the first sentence is more or less self-evident. The second one suggests you shut your mind off to evidence and just put an X in the box, based on …. nothing. Nice one.

My main point being that the vote took place over two years ago. The time for debate was before the vote and not afterwards and for those that state that many people didn't use their vote and by some strange reason they believe this makes the vote invalid what a crock of crap. If I wanted to remain in the EU or conversely leave the EU then all I had to do was vote. I am not arrogant enough to believe that my vote didn't count or matter.
So what you're saying is 'the vote stood'? Yeah. We get that. Even I get that. I haven't said it any other way.

Levers keeps pressing for answers as to why people like me made my choice to leave. My response is 'what the f**k has that got to do with you?' I have plenty of good enough reasons to vote the way that I did and you can call me all the names you like but as soon as you started doing that you lost the argument anyway.
Well, if you're on here pontificating about Brexit and pressing the 'bullshit' button, it might help if you explained yourself given the current climate juxtaposed with your 'winning vote'. You are accountable, you know. Your vote, accumulated with 17.2m others has made this intractable and difficult situation. It's got everything to do with me, if you think my point of view is bullshit. You should explain yourself, rather than being a bit cowardly and cryptic and not revealing your reasons

Had those in power, the so called 'honourable' Members of Parliament, the Gina Millers of this world, Mark Carney and many other self serving idiots accepted the outcome of the 2016 vote once the result was in then our negotiating hand with the EU would have been so much stronger. Instead Jean-Claude and his merry band of dullards laugh at us and rightly so seeing that despite us wishing to hand democracy back to our UK elected representatives all they can do is squabble like children.
That's not quite true, is it? Parliament voted to have the referendum, accept the outcome and execute Article 50 to leave the EU. Miller correctly challenged it in the courts and Carney is the governor of the BoE so can only call it how he sees it. Unless you want him to lie, maybe? You sue you understand what is going on here?

I shall keep an eye on this thread but as it stands I have no further motivation to post on it. Unlike some people I have a day job and plenty of other things to keep me occupied (now where did that Kays catalogue go..!)
Oh, don't go! You're making such a valuable contribution ...

All I would ask of 'Levers' is to please re-read some of your posts and ask yourself if you might just come across as a tiny bit arrogant. Some of your posts make me wonder if I served in the same Andrew as you; but then if you aspire to people like the picture in your avatar it tells me all I need to know.
Let me try and unravel your mindset there. I'm the arrogant one, yet you are swanning on here saying I voted, I don't have to tell you why, what's it got to do with you and you follow that up with some brainless inaccuracies about the Brexit process and the government. Then, you allude I have some or other contrary value system given our shared employment in the RN (nope, me neither). Then, still desperate to score points, you have a nibble at some ******* gif I have of some ******* dickheaded hip hop bellend on my avatar. Well, you've hit the jackpot there. I feel SO belittled. So I do.

Last thing and sorry but again it is aimed at Levers
Oh, I thought you'd done ….

- when I put the shit emoji against your posts in this thread it is because I think you talk shit & it's a lot quicker than having to justify myself to you. So once you break my post down and respond with all your usual diatribe I apologise in advance if I just respond with another emoji.
Or maybe you've just confirmed everything the poor, depleted readership of this already knows. You're a bit stupid. A little bit undersubscribed on the old 'able to engage in debate' skills and better suited to pressing the 'bullshit' button and cranking your lever whilst you do it, just 'cos you can.

Like most Brexiteers on here so far, you don't have to justify anything, even your own intelligence, integrity and mentality. Bravo, you.

Levers
 
My words aren't always great but at least try to keep up, you so busy on your bandstand you have no idea that others may or may not have an opinion, if it aligned to yours. My old man was a shop steward back in the 70, I asked him what all this join the common market was, he said it sounds to good to be true so probably was, he believed that the nation was being lied to, by politicians and the cost of entry was far to high. He wasn't far of the mark, with no interweb or Google to help him out. I also believe the idea of free trade a work force movement is good, it's this power grab, money wasting EU, and EU burocractic nonsense which makes no sense, why waste money just because you can. It can be put to better use all over the EU. Ragardles of how many pence it costs. Over500M people generates a lot even if a few pence.
**** me. We're little bits of spittle firing out on the monitor as you typed that?

I couldn't make head nor ******* tail of any of it, especially the second bit. Soz.

Levers
 

slim

War Hero
Well I wonder if Levers has any friends?
I have come to the conclusion that he is a complete RSole, however he is fair as he is not selective and is an Rsole to everyone
Waiting for yet another slagging from the tosser
Keep em comming Levers if I had any respect for you maybe your comments would count for something.
 
Well I wonder if Levers has any friends?
I have come to the conclusion that he is a complete RSole, however he is fair as he is not selective and is an Rsole to everyone
Waiting for yet another slagging from the tosser
Keep em comming Levers if I had any respect for you maybe your comments would count for something.
Great. Run out of things to say about your xenophobia and now it's proper ad hominem.

Levers
 
Those I feel truly sorry for are those that work for levers, It would be impossible to tell him he was wrong on any subject?
Nope. It's quite easy if you have the intelligence and integrity to justify your standpoint without being a little bit thick and bigoted in your outpourings. Give it a go, why don't you?

Levers
 

WreckerL

War Hero
TBH Levers, the personal insults weaken your personal integrity and probably stifle debate, not encourage it, just my opinion.

And before you start on me, I voted remain ;)
 
TBH Levers, the personal insults weaken your personal integrity and probably stifle debate, not encourage it, just my opinion.

And before you start on me, I voted remain ;)
Hmmm. Think you could direct that at Slim, Sumo and the bullshit button hitter, maybe?

All I wanna know is 'why', when they seem so sure they have voted the right way in the referendum. As I keep maintaining, when you strip away all the misconceptions, the self-delusion and the conscious bias, it does seem to all boil down to people who don't like foreigners. And they can't explain what effect foreigners have to make them vote leave, except 'be foreign'. Now if you're levelling accusations as to who has the least personal integrity, mebbe I'm not the right target, here.

For the record: We are leaving. I get it.

Levers
 

Sumo

War Hero
Hmmm. Think you could direct that at Slim, Sumo and the bullshit button hitter, maybe?

All I wanna know is 'why', when they seem so sure they have voted the right way in the referendum. As I keep maintaining, when you strip away all the misconceptions, the self-delusion and the conscious bias, it does seem to all boil down to people who don't like foreigners. And they can't explain what effect foreigners have to make them vote leave, except 'be foreign'. Now if you're levelling accusations as to who has the least personal integrity, mebbe I'm not the right target, here.

For the record: We are leaving. I get it.


Levers
This may take a while, but @Levers_Aligned why did you vote to remain?
why are you do certain you with the other minority voters are so correct?

when I have been part of debating teams, once you or a team membet, lose control and lower the tone to insults, or worse personal insults you have lost your team the debate, unless your Trump
 
This may take a while, but @Levers_Aligned why did you vote to remain?
Because although membership of the EU was far from perfect and our ongoing journey was filled with challenges, the benefits of continuing as members outstripped the potential chaos of leaving. I listened intently to both sides of the argument after I'd stripped out the patent bollocks like £350m per week and the made up spectre of immigration and still couldn't find a good reason to vote to leave. Membership of the EU for me also showed less risk than exiting in terms of my personal situation, and I have no desire to see Europe fragment and our influence diminish, especially give the resurgence of Russia and the instability of the USA.

why are you do certain you with the other minority voters are so correct?
Magga-magga honk-fiddle crock piss lamba hiptone, silver nightmare fartcup Vauxhall Viva 1974.

when I have been part of debating teams, once you or a team membet, lose control and lower the tone to insults, or worse personal insults you have lost your team the debate, unless your Trump
Well, try playing the ball yourself and not the player. You've asked a question up there and got an answer. When I ask you, Slim and old bullshit hitter, all I get is you lot getting all gripe water about it and ignoring the question itself, whilst coming across a bit bigoted.

Levers
 

huwshpis

War Hero
I have been reflecting on this and my earlier response to Slim's posts and believe that either he or I is labouring under a misapprehension.

The reason for criminals not being deported has usually been for human rights reasons and as a result of an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights. If I recall correctly this is entirely separate from the EU and the UK leaving the EU will have no effect whatsoever on that aspect of our laws. The judgements will still apply and we will be obliged to acknowledge them. So far as I am aware there is no suggestion that we will withdraw from this position either now as part of our leaving the EU or later.

I think I am correct in this but perhaps our learned friend @huwshpis will clarify?
Happy to clarify. The European Convention on Human Rights was largely drafted by British lawyers in the early 1950s as a means of preventing the kinds of atrocities perpetrated between 1933 and 1945. The ECHR was established to enforce the Convention and placed into the framework of the Council of Europe, an organisation the both predates and is wholly separate from the EU. There are more members of the CoE than the EU. Leaving the EU will have no effect on the jurisdiction of the ECHR on the UK - we will still be bound by the Convention.

It is important to remember that the ECHR judges whether UK laws are compliant with the requirements set out in the convention. There is no doubt that if one had asked one of the lawyers who drafted the Convention whether UK laws complied with it, the answer would have been “yes”. The divergences of opinion that have since arisen are largely due to the Court being made up of judges from each of the Council of Europe nations who each bring different legal traditions to the job of interpreting the Convention. They are usually unwilling to accept, for example, that a judge-made common-law rule is just as much a law in England and Wales as an Act of Parliament.
 

Sumo

War Hero
You do understand what the message is here, don't you?

I'll give you a clue - it doesn't support your standpoint and is possibly a little but of a parody.

Levers
Isn't that what you've been looking for, something that shows all those that voted to leave, as being a bit not right in the head IYO
 

slim

War Hero
Isn't that what you've been looking for, something that shows all those that voted to leave, as being a bit not right in the head IYO
The only person not right in the head is Levers the dictator.
All opinions are good so long as they do not contradict his.
He seems to be more than a little xenophobic himself from many of his comments.
 
Isn't that what you've been looking for, something that shows all those that voted to leave, as being a bit not right in the head IYO
Nope. (you lot do so well to get your point across here, and each time, my answer is invariably 'no')

If I wanted to illustrate that Brexiters had not one solitary clue about the consequences of their actions and are possibly a bit misguided and xenophobic, I need not stray too far from the wearying pages of this debate. I think the evidence is pretty conclusive.

But, y'know. You 'won'. Own your victory, eh, and stop blaming people who voted to stay in the EU.

Levers
 
The only person not right in the head is Levers the dictator.
All opinions are good so long as they do not contradict his.
He seems to be more than a little xenophobic himself from many of his comments.
Christ. It's like conversing with a retard, isn't it? Are you one of those who presses the 'dumb' button on the bottom of my posts? Oh yes, you are! :)

Look, I know you don't understand what is going on and you have exposed yourself as a bit of an ignorant bigot, but have a read of what you've put there and go figure why many are laughing at Brexiters now and why you yourself should go and try to understand what 'xenophobic' means. It might help.

Levers
 

slim

War Hero
Xenophobia is the fear and distrust of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange.[1][2] Xenophobia can involve perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup and can manifest itself in suspicion of the activities of others, and a desire to eliminate their presence to secure a presumed purity and may relate to a fear of losing national, ethnic or racial identity.[3]

Xenophobia can also be exhibited in the form of an "uncritical exaltation of another culture" in which a culture is ascribed "an unreal, stereotyped and exotic quality".[3] The terms xenophobia and racism are sometimes confused and used interchangeably because people who share a national origin may also belong to the same race.[4] Due to this, xenophobia is usually distinguished by opposition to foreign culture.[4]

I have examinied my life and cannot identify how in any way I fall into this group.
The last 19 years of workin life was spent working overseas in a great many different countries and have a large number of friends of all races and creeds. I never ever had any problems with those I worked with and those that I met and often socialised with after work.
Even today after retiring about 50% of my friends are from different countries and cultures, we get on extremely well.
Oh and guess what, I even get on well with British people.
 

Sumo

War Hero
Not blaming the leavers for anything other than a 2years time wasting and not becoming a unified collective to work on the best way forward.
One of the big votes sawyer was Cameron getting his arse kicked by the EU, trying to get a better deal for the UK? For some that would have been a red flag.
Personally I had been doing my own research for over a decade before the vote was given so all the hype leading up to the vote had no effect on my vote.i voted for my own personal reasons as you did. The biggest scary thing that could happen, would be a last minute pull out, followed by a general election. It is possible a backlash vote for not leaving could put Corbyn in No10, now that would be scary?
 
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