Branch Change during phase One training?

#22
Ninja_Stoker said:
FunkyJunky said:
the decision to allow a branch transfer is not down to an instructor really...people will know this if they have any sense

people who kick up enough stink at the right time will get what they want

best bet is wait till they have completed training and transfer from there

Even a serial moaner will appreciate that to transfer, the source branch has to grant manning clearance, which can't happen until after the 2.5 year return of service after completion of initial phase two training.

The intended branch has to have a training place (currently a 2 year wait) & the applicant must be medically suitable, recommended & have scored high enough in the recruiting test for trade training in the new trade.

Yes, we've all heard of people who have transferred, but it would be rather irresponsible to suggest to anyone about to join or already joining the service that all that's required is a messdeck lawyer & an incessant drip.
fair enough
 
#23
Please help.
My son is at Raleigh on week 2.
He signed up for fleet but careers officer steered him to take subs after he’s passed all his entry. Told him he’d get in quicker my son being eager agreed. But he’s panicking about it as he wants fleet still. Has had a couple of panick attacks whilst down there and now they’re saying it’s genetic!! He’s never ever had this before!!
All he wants is not to go on subs after feeling a bit pressured to take it. PO said yesterday he might be able to switch but higher up have come back and said no?
Now he doesn’t know what he can do. He desperately wants to be in the RN but not subs :(
What can he do?
Thank you for reading my plea for help
 
#24
All he can do is crack on and keep applying to go surface. he could try seeing the Bish (Padre) which may or may not help. It used to be the case that you only had to do 5 years on boats before you could go General Service but I don't know if that still applies (it equates to one sea draft).

It's a salutary lesson in waiting for what you want rather than take anything just to get your foot in the door.
Worst case scenario is he PVR's and then re-joins at a later date, if he does that though, he won't get the PVR option second time around.
 
#25
All he can do is crack on and keep applying to go surface. he could try seeing the Bish (Padre) which may or may not help. It used to be the case that you only had to do 5 years on boats before you could go General Service but I don't know if that still applies (it equates to one sea draft).

It's a salutary lesson in waiting for what you want rather than take anything just to get your foot in the door.
Worst case scenario is he PVR's and then re-joins at a later date, if he does that though, he won't get the PVR option second time around.
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me.
I’ll chat to him when he’s able to phone home and inform him of the information you have kindly given.
:)
 
#26
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me.
I’ll chat to him when he’s able to phone home and inform him of the information you have kindly given.
:)
His Divisional Staff should be able to help. If he does decide to PVR he has to have an interview with the Personnel Selection Officer so can state his reasons there, no idea what the outcome would be though.
 
#27
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me.
I’ll chat to him when he’s able to phone home and inform him of the information you have kindly given.
:)
I've responded to your question on the Facebook page, but for the benefit of any lurkers or other parents/recruits I'll copy the bulk of my response here:

I’m not in a position to discuss the pressure applied by AFCO’s for potential recruits to apply for submarines. We are short in a number of branches, which means waiting times for entry are shorter, but what AFCO’s are saying about joining in one branch and then swapping to a different one later I couldn’t say.

What I do know is that Branch Transfer isn’t a right, and whatever impression they may join with recruits sign a form at the AFCO to say they understand that.

The other problem he will face is that he has joined as a submariner. Previously, when I joined, we joined as General Service. Even though I volunteered for SM’s in my Phase 2 and have never served on a ship, the fact that I joined as GS means I had that right to return to GS after 5 years. Now that people are recruited directly as submariners they don’t.

So what are his options? He can approach his Divisional Instructor or Divisional Officer and tell them how he feels and formally request to transfer. The likely success or otherwise of that will depend on a number of factors; numbers in his current branch and his requested branch and whether he has the required RT score for his new branch are definite, but the ultimate decision will be made by the relevant Branch Managers if approval is given by the Senior Training Staff at Raleigh.

Some detail is contained within Ch 51 of BR3 - https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/-/medi...s/reference-library/br-3-vol-1/chapter-51.pdf

Should his request to transfer be refused and he finds himself unable to face a future in SM’s, then PVR and rejoin is his only other option. I should say however that he will have no automatic right to rejoin.
 
#28
I've responded to your question on the Facebook page, but for the benefit of any lurkers or other parents/recruits I'll copy the bulk of my response here:

I’m not in a position to discuss the pressure applied by AFCO’s for potential recruits to apply for submarines. We are short in a number of branches, which means waiting times for entry are shorter, but what AFCO’s are saying about joining in one branch and then swapping to a different one later I couldn’t say.

What I do know is that Branch Transfer isn’t a right, and whatever impression they may join with recruits sign a form at the AFCO to say they understand that.

The other problem he will face is that he has joined as a submariner. Previously, when I joined, we joined as General Service. Even though I volunteered for SM’s in my Phase 2 and have never served on a ship, the fact that I joined as GS means I had that right to return to GS after 5 years. Now that people are recruited directly as submariners they don’t.

So what are his options? He can approach his Divisional Instructor or Divisional Officer and tell them how he feels and formally request to transfer. The likely success or otherwise of that will depend on a number of factors; numbers in his current branch and his requested branch and whether he has the required RT score for his new branch are definite, but the ultimate decision will be made by the relevant Branch Managers if approval is given by the Senior Training Staff at Raleigh.

Some detail is contained within Ch 51 of BR3 - https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/-/medi...s/reference-library/br-3-vol-1/chapter-51.pdf

Should his request to transfer be refused and he finds himself unable to face a future in SM’s, then PVR and rejoin is his only other option. I should say however that he will have no automatic right to rejoin.
Thank you :)
I had posted here before being accepted into the Facebook. Really appreciate everything you have advised
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#29
Please help.
My son is at Raleigh on week 2.
He signed up for fleet but careers officer steered him to take subs after he’s passed all his entry. Told him he’d get in quicker my son being eager agreed. But he’s panicking about it as he wants fleet still. Has had a couple of panick attacks whilst down there and now they’re saying it’s genetic!! He’s never ever had this before!!
All he wants is not to go on subs after feeling a bit pressured to take it. PO said yesterday he might be able to switch but higher up have come back and said no?
Now he doesn’t know what he can do. He desperately wants to be in the RN but not subs :(
What can he do?
Thank you for reading my plea for help
The Submarine Recruiting Team routinely visit AFCOs, usually to give presentations on the benefits (and negative aspects) of joining the Submarine service to those who have just taken the Recruit Test.

It is emphasized that although there are many benefits to joining the Submarine service such as a shorter wait to join in several branches, those joining the Submarine service must serve five years before eligible to transfer to general service (surface ships).

As ever, the welfare of the individual is of primary concern and it is not in the Navy's best interest to recruit anyone into a job they do not want.

He needs to talk to his Divisional Officer, the Padre, Personnel Selection Officer, the Medical Staff or Divisional Senior Rate if he is having panic attacks.

Those joining the service are free to opt out at any point between weeks four to twenty six.

No-one is pressured to join in a job they do not want but very often they ask what the quickest way to join is and are given options.

My advice, if he doesn't want to join the service is to submit his notice to quit and leave in the conventional manner, then re-apply and wait the required time to join.

If he is medically discharged and cites mental health issues to leave faster, there's always the chance the condition may bar entry in future.

Best of luck, let us know how it goes - he's got six months to decide whether he likes it so quitting before actually finding out a bit more is probably not the best way to go unless his health and wellbeing is serious enough to warrant a medical discharge.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.
 
#30
The Submarine Recruiting Team routinely visit AFCOs, usually to give presentations on the benefits (and negative aspects) of joining the Submarine service to those who have just taken the Recruit Test.

It is emphasized that although there are many benefits to joining the Submarine service such as a shorter wait to join in several branches, those joining the Submarine service must serve five years before eligible to transfer to general service (surface ships).
Phase 1 recruits, whether destined for SM’s or not, also get a brief at the Submarine School at which new volunteers are occasionally identified.

I don’t believe the right to return to GS any longer exists though, at least not for those directly recruited as SM. That’s my reading of BR3 para 5113 anyway. 70259D5F-1811-4DB6-BB36-B962294150E5.png
 
#31
The Submarine Recruiting Team routinely visit AFCOs, usually to give presentations on the benefits (and negative aspects) of joining the Submarine service to those who have just taken the Recruit Test.

It is emphasized that although there are many benefits to joining the Submarine service such as a shorter wait to join in several branches, those joining the Submarine service must serve five years before eligible to transfer to general service (surface ships).

As ever, the welfare of the individual is of primary concern and it is not in the Navy's best interest to recruit anyone into a job they do not want.

He needs to talk to his Divisional Officer, the Padre, Personnel Selection Officer, the Medical Staff or Divisional Senior Rate if he is having panic attacks.

Those joining the service are free to opt out at any point between weeks four to twenty six.

No-one is pressured to join in a job they do not want but very often they ask what the quickest way to join is and are given options.

My advice, if he doesn't want to join the service is to submit his notice to quit and leave in the conventional manner, then re-apply and wait the required time to join.

If he is medically discharged and cites mental health issues to leave faster, there's always the chance the condition may bar entry in future.

Best of luck, let us know how it goes - he's got six months to decide whether he likes it so quitting before actually finding out a bit more is probably not the best way to go unless his health and wellbeing is serious enough to warrant a medical discharge.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.
Thank you for your reply.
Your last paragraph is exactly what I’ve told him tonight. He needs to continue to know for sure! How can anyone know if they don’t actually try?!!
I confess he got a beasting from me over the phone. Ooops! But I’ve tried nice supportive mum, tonight I didn’t hold back. Whether I can get through to him I don’t know, but I’ve tried. It’ll ultimately be down to him to excel or ruin an amazing opportunity! :(
 
#32
If you join directly as a submariner. You will be lucky to get out (to the surface world) you don't like it. Remember, for all the pressures of being on a boat (and severe lack of foreign visits)...you will be stuck in Faslane!!!
Currently, if you join as a General Service rating, pass phase 1, 2 etc and then volunteer for SM service, you CAN return to ships after 5 years.

This is from (the current version of) BR3 (important book) regarding volunteers from General Service to serve on submarines,

Volunteers. Eligible ratings may volunteer at any point of their career (subject to Para 5126 sub para b). This is for a minimum period of five years from the award of the submarine basic qualification (SMQ/BSQ/Dolphins). (1) A rating who wishes to volunteer for SM service must submit a branch transfer request in accordance with Para 5116 and Para 5125 sub para b and sub para c.

Ceasing to be a Volunteer. If a rating does not wish to volunteer for further service beyond five years, in order to give the Career Manager sufficient notice, they must request to be transferred to GS at least six months before completion of the five year term


goes without saying,BR3 gets reviewed all the time (as do all publications in the forces) but this rule has been there as long as I can remember.
 
Last edited:

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#33
Phase 1 recruits, whether destined for SM’s or not, also get a brief at the Submarine School at which new volunteers are occasionally identified.

I don’t believe the right to return to GS any longer exists though, at least not for those directly recruited as SM. That’s my reading of BR3 para 5113 anyway. View attachment 34393
Agreed, transferring branches is never a right. Generally if someone joins in one branch they are not entitled to apply to transfer until they complete 30 months return of service after completing phase two training. Submariners usually take an extra year of training to earn their dolphins - if there are billets immediately available. Usually they are in a shortage branch so joining for speed and hoping to transfer in the short term is never a good idea. It's better to wait for the job you want.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#34
Thank you for your reply.
Your last paragraph is exactly what I’ve told him tonight. He needs to continue to know for sure! How can anyone know if they don’t actually try?!!
I confess he got a beasting from me over the phone. Ooops! But I’ve tried nice supportive mum, tonight I didn’t hold back. Whether I can get through to him I don’t know, but I’ve tried. It’ll ultimately be down to him to excel or ruin an amazing opportunity! :(
Rest assured, early days just about everyone has doubts when they join. However panic attacks, if genuine, are a serious matter and are a medical and welfare issue, so they will be keeping a close eye on him.

Hopefully he's just like everyone else and wondering if he's chosen the right job and just needs a bit of firm direction from hope. Tough love is never easy, but it can be the difference between staying or quitting.

If he does quit, in my experience most people regret it and cannot rejoin for several years, if at all.
 
#35
Thank you for your reply.
Your last paragraph is exactly what I’ve told him tonight. He needs to continue to know for sure! How can anyone know if they don’t actually try?!!
I confess he got a beasting from me over the phone. Ooops! But I’ve tried nice supportive mum, tonight I didn’t hold back. Whether I can get through to him I don’t know, but I’ve tried. It’ll ultimately be down to him to excel or ruin an amazing opportunity! :(
It can be tough when on the other end of the phone. He needs to knuckle down and get on with it. Keep us up to date with his progress.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top